How can we manage financially as Universal Credit support reduces?

[elliejjtiny]

We have 5 dc aged between 19 and 11 all with disabilities. Dh was a manager up until youngest was born, then he became unwell and had to take a massive pay cut. I'm a Sahm and get carers allowance. We get UC. Dc1 in his first year at uni, dc2 about to start in September.

We are just about managing at the moment but barely. In September we are going to lose the child element of universal credit for dc2 and I'm worried how we are going to manage. When the dc were younger I thought I would be working by now but I'm only getting 4 hours sleep a night and my 11 year old needs constant supervision when not at school so I don't know how I could fit work in. Dh has to work away about 15 weekends a year (from friday morning until late Sunday night) which leaves me completely exhausted each time. We spend 9 weekends a year picking up/dropping off/visiting dc1 and I imagine spending the same amount of time with dc2. There is no childcare for children my dc age with SN and they have to be picked up and dropped off at school. The dc have appointments about once a week on average and dc4 stays in hospital about 1 night a year when I don't get any sleep at all.

Realistically I can't think of any employer who would employ me with the amount of time off I would need and on so little sleep. At the moment I spend the time dc are at school doing the housework, cooking the dinner and trying to catch up on a bit of sleep.

I'm trying to think of anywhere we could save money but I can't think of anything. Dc1 doesn't cost any less money while he is at uni.

Do you think that it's undesirable to have disabled children? That it would be better if disabled children weren't born?

Pragmatically speaking and ignoring the choices along the way as this is where you are now and you can’t go back in time.

Cut back the weekend trips unless there is some sort of drip feed coming. Your second child can look for work. Not everything requires speaking - data entry? Cleaning? If you can’t afford to support them through Uni then maybe they need to consider going somewhere local or college or something more reasonable.

And unfortunately agree with others - not sure why you can’t work part time honestly. If you need to feed your kids you’ll just have to try to find a way to make it work.

There are definitely nuances as I said. I don't think late identified children are undeserving fraudsters at all. I think those children have often been failed miserably. I personally think they need many of the benefits and support etc.

I just don't think the PP quoted who talked about severity of disability generally being obvious from a younger age would have been referring to children with an LD being seen by a Paediatrician at 2 years old but just without their autism and ADHD diagnoses. Maybe I misinterpreted.

I'm fed with people either lacking comprehension abilities, or worse, pretending they don't understand to back up their half-witted claims.

In the case of very severe disabilities that impede independence (eg where the person needs round the clock care, is violent or aggressive and cannot function in society) then yes I think it is undesirable to purposefully have multiple children knowing they will suffer and will not be able to take part in society and where the parents will die before the child, leaving them on their own with nobody to care for them or burdening a sibling to do it. Not all disabilities are picked up on scans so sometimes it is unavoidable. However those who say all lives are equal are deluding themselves because society certainly doesn’t treat them equally and if the parents can’t afford to or can’t care for these children, who precisely will?

Do you think it's fair to keep having children knowing that you've passed on something genetic and can't look after the children you already have?

I know, I was talking about general attitudes. I don't think many people with disabled children experience someone directly telling them that their child's life is invalid or not worthwhile yet on threads like this, there are many people willing to give that view. If individually challenged, they never mean the person doing the challenging! Always someone else.

Hmm we're wildly veering from what was originally said. Has the op said her children "need round the clock care, are violent or aggressive and cannot function in society"? No. So why are you bringing that aspect of disability into the debate? In any case, it is not for you to determine whose lives are valuable and whose are worthless.

So I'll ask you to answer the questions again.

Do you think that it's undesirable to have disabled children? That it would be better if disabled children weren't born?

Surely the point is that two of her children are/are on the cusp of becoming independent and she is asking how she can make up the money that she will lose by only being able to claim for 3 of them?

I am sick of the whole 'well we could afford them when we had them' argument. Why do people think insurance exists for stuff in life? Because shit happens. So don't have 5 kids unless you have a trust fund or an independent source of income that could support 5 kids until they're 18 (or longer if they intend to go to Uni).

Life is hard and expensive if you have 5 kids so I agree that the only solution for the OPs family is for her to get a job which is going to be very hard.

OK then, what's your proposed solution?

Exactly. And it’s so egotistical. Who suffers if someone with a genetic disorder doesn’t have as many children as they have personally decided they want? Only that person in that they are disappointed. Who suffers if they push ahead anyway? They do, their children do, their wider family who may be called on to look after the children, other kids in the school system, wider society. Yes it’s disappointing if you wanted a big family and you can’t have it but there are far worse things to go through. If you have two kids and both appear to have additional needs, whether or not you have a diagnosis and whether or not you think the condition will “go away”, be responsible and don’t have more. Equally I think it’s beyond selfish if you know you carry a genetic disorder that will lead to death and suffering (eg Huntington's) to have kids where you know they are likely to inherit it. Or where you refuse to abort even though you know your child will suffer horrendous pain.

Or: choice is for the very wealthy.

Do you think the children of the very wealthy will provide the essential services that we need as a society? Will they drive buses, work in care, empty bins? If not, why do you advocate for the birth rate to continue to fall so that in future we won't be able to pay anybody's pension or keep society and the economy running?

I don't give a shit who has kids so long as they can support them.

And that old ponzi scheme again. Poster after poster has said how shit the job market currently is, you really think that that is going to improve with AI in the future?

Everyone whose child will require a future job should be considering how many children they have.

I’m not sure. Instil a sense of responsibility in people? People harp on about eugenics but for instance in Iceland, 100% of parents abort fetuses with Down’s syndrome.

And that is quite a different issue.

It doesn't matter how children are supported if they grow up to contribute to society to their best ability. And that doesn't always look as people would imagine. We all depends on each other, and that's as it should be. Who cares if the op claims benefits for her children, when she's raising them to reach their full potential? There is no scorecard to be marked at the very end.

God, imagine if the husbands employer decided to sell the company properties..

Then these freeloaders would really have their begging bowls out... Without, naturally considering paying for their own children, or it seems themselves.

If he's earning less money than he did 11 yrs ago, how? The minimum wage has doubled in that time, so he's doing half the hours he used to... What's that, 10 a week? 5?

And all these excuses about how hard it is to find a job... Rubbish. There's a job in every care home in the country. There's lots of cleaning. This is, after all, for a woman who's done nothing work related for decades. She's hardly CEO material is she?

Pay for your own kids, stop reproducing! Get a hobby.

Goodness, what on earth are you trying to say here? Own your views, articulate them. Don't hide behind vague words.

It certainly is a massive worry that there are going to be increasingly fewer people actually working and paying taxes in the future to support an ever increasing number of pensioners and people who can't work due to disabilities and neurodiversity. I mean the situation is bad enough currently but set to get worse. People should be worried about this.

WTAF, is that something to be proud of?

Well you're entitled to not care if you like but a lot of us do. Having seen how many posts you've had deleted you're clearly convinced yours is the only view and are just being rude to people who disagree with you.

They do indeed. Plenty of them aren't on benefits either.

Not sure what you mean. My view is that it is irresponsible bringing a child into the world where they will require lifelong care and you know you will only be able to provide it for so long, as you will inevitably die before them. Especially in a world where there are severe cutbacks to social care all the time and where those who live in state-run facilities also face the risk of being mistreated and abused. As I said before, sometimes it is not known that your child will have a disability. Clearly there are different norms in different societies and in this one, a lot of people seem to almost glamourise the experience of having a disabled child, talking about the rewards and glossing over the realities (and especially the realities for siblings who are forced to just cope with it). Or going on a pro-life rant and saying that all lives have the same value when they obviously don't in our society.

Why did you introduce the subject of Down syndrome?

Are you ready to respond to my previous questions or are you planning to ignore them because your answer is unpalatable and you don't want to appear as "that sort" of person?