Both work and we claim UC but still can't afford to live.

[Mocha1]

We have 3 kids, 2 who aren't at school yet, my husband and I both work 30 hours a week for charities so not highly paid. We also have childcare for part of the week and then juggle the kids between us the rest of the time (We don't want to work more as we dont want the kids in fulltime childcare). We rent and down't own. We claim UC but we are still really struggling to make ends meet. We really try to live to a tight budget but I have no idea how to lower our expenses any more.

Am I missing something? Is this normal? does anyone have any tips for saving money/ making more income somehow? I feel a bit at a loss as we keep dipping into our savings for just day to day expenses and we're nearly at the end of those.

Our income at the moment (I'm on MAT leave) - £3980
Outgoings- £4250

Do these outgoings seem like a lot for a family of 5 living in the south west? I've been going over our budget and I have no idea how to save any more unless we literally never bought another birthday present or went to a soft play ever again.

This with glitter on ! ^

I don't think people are being unkind. Three children may not be a "luxury" but it is a lifestyle choice that many feel unable to afford. Ditto both parents working part-time in a poorly paid sector (presumably rewarding personally).

Most working parents of this generation are actually absolutely slogging away with both working full time, a high cost of living etc. though - it is worth noting.

I agree there seems to be a whole group of people like OP who seem to expect the welfare system to fund their personal lifestyle preferences - but for most working parents, affording children (and the expectations on child rearing) mean both parents need to work very hard (in and out of the home).

Only had one, too. No chance of affording a second, and for a long time I was saddened (had always wanted 4!). Cut your cloth, etc.

Quite. Sometimes you wonder if these posts are plants to make a point about how screwed the system is. "You too could have a cosy life working part time for a charity whilst the government feeds your kids".

OP and her DP are working 60hrs a week as a family.

The average full-time working week is around 36hrs. That’s 72hrs for couples. So, they may work part-time but not far off full-time.

IMHO parents working 60hrs a week as a family should be able to afford basics.

Wages and benefits can’t keep going up, as that simply pushes up market prices.

So, the answer has to be bringing costs down. Addressing dependence on profit-driven markets. If basics like housing and energy are not-for profit, costs would come down.

One thing really confusing me in this thread. I work in the charitable sector and myself and colleagues don't consider ourselves "low" paid. For similar level jobs in say government I am better paid where I am, than if I switched. So that part puzzles me. We also get a good pension deal.

I agree. I was born in the 60s not the 40s and I don’t remember any SAHMs around us.

They all had work of some sort (usually low paid) either brought into the home or outside but at antisocial hours to fit around the husband's regular job. The men all did extra shifts and overtime as available - they were all trying to top up the basic wage to live and not for luxuries like buying three bed semis.

Too many children.

I haven’t said they weren’t. All I said was its personal choice.

as usual my comment gets deleted for saying it as it is, a sign of woke times

to people saying OP cant put her 3rd kid back, whats to stop her from having anymore kids, sponge of taxpayers and still complain?

OP do us all a favour and stop having anymore kids

A luxury is arguably an addition something that day to day you can’t afford…eg most people can’t go on holiday 40 times a year so paying for a holiday is a luxury. Your finances indicate you can’t afford to live your lifestyle and have a third child, which is why people have said that. In fairness, it does make sense. It doesn’t appear to be an unpleasant statement when you’re saying you’re financially struggling.

Our DS went to nursery full time, our DD didn’t. In terms of their development…it’s hard to say as they have very different personalities but he’s far more easy going and deals with changes in situations etc far more easily. Academically it comes to him more easily too. I’d say there’s been zero negative impacts on him.

You already know the answer…reduce your outgoings or increase your income.

I agree you can’t, but I guess it’s human nature.

Christ.. £3900 with UC.

DH and I both work full time and don’t bring home that. I earn £1350 pm and DH around £1900 and we both work full time, albeit I work term time only.

I have two kids and there’s no way on gods earth could I afford to bring another child into the world with our incomes. So I do question why you brought another child into the world knowing you couldn’t afford to.

Sounds to me like my husband and I would be better off dropping our hours and claiming UC. More money and better quality of life. Madness.

> Do these outgoings seem like a lot for a family of 5 living in the south west?
Yes, that seems astonishingly high to me
(For reference, my niece is in a family of five in Essex and their monthly outgoings for everything are about £3200
I understand from some of the snotty comments that you're wary about posting a full budget of your outgoings, but what are your five biggest bills each month?

True, but I’m very basic maths that would be 20% more hours and 20% more income for them is nearly £800 so it’s a sizeable change. Obviously it’s not quite that straight forward but hopefully you get my point.

The same people who pay for parents free childcare which for some reason working parents don’t have a problem accepting.

Your "answer" is not within the power of OP though, working more and earning more is

OK but I don't think it's a helpful thing to say.

Because there are a lot of people working full time to support themselves and their kids, paying an arm and a leg for childcare and ever increasing mortgage costs, who would like to work less and spend more time with their children, or have more children, but know that they can't afford it. They are understandably going to be pissed off reading threads like this by someone who has let their heart rule all their decisions rather than their head, had more children than they can afford, not tried to maximise their household income, and is complaining that even with universal credit, they can't make ends meet.

If you tell people working full time to support their families that it is a choice they have made, and that if they had different priorities (such as working less, spending more time with their children and having no financial safety net) they could choose to live differently, maybe they will make different choices. Maybe they will all decide to work less, run down their savings, and claim universal credit instead. Except that as a society we can't afford for everyone to make that choice. The only reason the OP and her husband can make that choice is because most other people don't.

Let's reframe this; you earn more money so you need less of a subsidy. Be more self reliant, have more self respect.

You need to earn more and spend less; work/earn more somehow, move somewhere smaller, ditch the soft play etc (it’s not an essential), move somewhere cheaper (though your rent sounds good value atm). If you imagine another £500 going from your income, how would you cope? What are the first things you’d be able to cut back on or change? That would be a good starting point for changing things up now, while you’re just drifting back by a little way each month. The easiest thing I’d imagine you could do is for one of you to get a second job in maybe a supermarket, either on the till or delivering groceries. Another £300 a month and you’d be back in the black: another 20 hours or so. It might be really tough but it should get easier as your childcare costs go down when DC are all at school?

2 people each working an extra 10 hours means 20 hours worked extra per week

20x4x12.60=1,008 before NI and tax

Same here.

You've chosen to have three children even though you can't afford it, and refuse to work FT but instead rely on UC. Why can't one of you up your hours to FT, the other parent would still have one day off a week to look after the DC.

The welfare system is there to support people when their circumstances mean they are unable to survive without support. You are taking the piss quite honestly

I am actually q surprised they can claim universal credit tbh. Just did a quick calc on myself incase I was missing something and it came back with a big fat zero!

I am sure they can afford the basics. Their outgoings are over £4k pm, that's not just basics. OP isn't going to share the breakdown of expenses so we don't know exactly where it is going but I put good money on it being more than basics.