Deprivation of Assets and UC

[V2Schneider]

I am aware of this topic being posted a few times, but having read many of the posts and replies, I can’t seem to find an answer that covers my circumstances.

BACKGROUND
My wife has Myeloma Blood Cancer, had a stem-cell transplant in 2020… now the cancer is back, and she’s back in chemo, and probably set for her second Stem-cell transplant later this year.

My eldest (19) has a recent diagnosis of autism, which explains the difficult times we had with school and education since they were 11.

My youngest (15) has a genetic condition, and attends special school.

I don’t live with them anymore. I also have an autoimmune disease, Vasculitis, and so I am not working.

QUESTION
Since my wife’s illness has got worse, she is finding it increasingly difficult to maintain the house, and garden. So much so that it needs a complete clear-out and repairs etc. My kids don’t have the capacity to help, really, and so things have just got out of hand.
I decided that I have to do something, so I looked to one of my pensions. I have applied for early retirement, but I have to take the initial lump sum all in one go, and that could be between 15-20k…

I am on UC, with LCWRA, and PIP. Having so much money will obviously stop my UC.

i am planning to use the money (£6000 of it initially) to put things right at my wife and kids’ home.
I also wanted to pay for my wife and kids to go on holiday.

so, my question is: Does paying for repairs etc. to my wife and kids’ home, and paying for a holiday for them (by god, they need one!) count as me willingly depriving myself of capital to keep benefits?
Has anyone been through something similar?

The rest of the money I will be using to clear my own debts, and may even take a holiday myself!

TIA

Yes. Autism.
PIP payments do contribute to keeping the house, to some extent. They are there to facilitate living an independent life, not necessarily to pay bills etc. PIP payments also are deducted to pay for the car, so less money comes in to the household.

The household income is sufficient to keep living, but what it doesn’t do is allow for “emergent” situations such as expensive repairs etc. There is no buffer if disposable income.

I don't understand your reply. 'Less than a year's living' - do you mean that if you take 25% of your pot, it will cover under 12 months living expenses?

Unless I've misunderstood your whole post, it seems somewhat unfair that you want to use your pension pot to fund extras whilst continuing to claim benefits.

Yes. If I take my lump sum, and lose all my UC, Council Tax Credit, rent rebate etc. because of it, I will only have enough to last around 10 months.
That's if I don’t use any of the lump sum to pay my debts etc. Do you think that the wellbeing of children is an “extra”? Hmmm… I think that the wellbeing of my kids is the most important thing. That’s why I worked as much as I could, paid into NI and a pension etc.

I've not read the whole thread.

My understanding is you've said that your children can manage day to day but they need a holiday. Kindly, a holiday is an extra which may be out of the reach of people on low incomes. If you have saved into a pension in order to afford extras (NI is a tax that we all pay), then withdraw that money for extras. But you can't really expect to claim benefits when you have a year's living expenses in the bank.

I know.
I came here looking for help, not censure.

Ok, so you haven’t read the thread, and yet pass judgement. 🙄

Ok, I’m not going to follow this thread anymore.

THANK YOU sincerely for the people who have tried to help, with advice, links, and just plain understanding. I will act on your advice. 👍

And the others who just came to judge, well thank you too… confirmed my thoughts on social media.

I think they grasped the thread pretty well actually. You want to spend money on things that are "nice" but not "necessary" and then continue to claim benefits whch other people are paying for rather than spend the money that you will have on living expenses.

I came here looking for help, not censure.

You've had help. It just isn't the help you wanted. Again, the two things are not the same. You are very fortunate to have a pension and a lump sum available to you. Many people on benefits do not. But doing up the garden and holidays are not necessary.

@V2Schneider I am not a benefit basher. But just to say a recent diagnosis of autism at 19 does not mean he can not help clear the garden. He may need supervision and direction though that you could provide.

They, not He.
And you don’t actually know what they can and can’t do. Is my word not good enough, as one if the people that knows them best?

@V2Schneider Okay sorry. It sounds like some of the PIP needs to be used for carers then to help the family.
I understand your wife and children are in a very difficult position. I just know that you can not claim you are independent financially as households, and then say you are not financially independent. And if you are meeting their costs, you will be claiming you are not financially independent households.
It sounds a very tricky situation.

As soon as savings drop below 16k you could claim UC again but as you pointed out earlier in the thread there would be some deduction for any savings over 6k but under 16k.

This is my understanding (it's five years since I did very similar) but you would need to research current UC rules.
SIPP options are very flexible - you could wait until the State pension age to start to withdraw if it's more advantageous to do so.

But the point you're missing (or up until now) is that by funding repairs to their house you are not financially independent. My ex and I are financially independent and neither of us fund anything like that for each other. There is child maintenance but I do not fund his house repairs and nor would he fund mine. This is where you're coming unstuck, you can't be telling UC you're financially independent but then fund things in a house you don't live in belonging to your ex wife.

The deprivation of capital is a separate issue.

You said the autism was a recent diagnosis so I really don't think this would stop a 19 year old from helping to clear a house. (I have a child with significant mental health challenges precipitated.by autism and so do I so not.coming from a place of complete ignorance- autism itself doesn't stop someone from helping to clear a house and keep.it tidy, it is a life skill that is very important)

Also with regards to emergent situations I wasn't referring to the fence. More the tidying the hlsue side of things which should really be covered by pip I would have thought?

Yes PIP can cover anything that someone needs help with - gardening, cleaning, care, therapy. Anything which makes the life of the disabled person easier or better.

You would be better putting some aside for the girls for when they're older. I don't think if you put for example £3k per child into an ISA that would be questioned.

Also what will you live off? You need to keep some lump sum back for yourself. You won't get state pension until 67 which could be a few years away.

Will you go & live back in the house at some point? I think it's a lot to spend on decluttering - you say you are unwell but between you it's possible you could do a room at a time. You could then use the money for something else.

Could you also spend less on a holiday - you haven't got loads spare. So maybe some UK things like theatre trip, spa day, weekend in London rather than a week somewhere hot. Your ex might prefer that if she's unwell?

As you say you are no longer able to work, have you applied for ill health retirement? Taking your pension early will significantly reduce its value. IHR can negate the impact of doing so depending on whether you receive Tier 1 or Tier 2.
If you’re expecting a lump sum of £20k, which you should be able to see on your TPS account if you download your benefits statement, then you’ll be receiving an annual pension of at least £6k. This will impact on any UC you receive. I’m surprised that at 55, having worked all your life, your pension is so low, even with an ARR due to taking it early. Also, surely you’re taking it 5 years early, not 10, as your NPA will be 60 not 65?

@Soontobe60 For men retirement age in employer pensions outside the public services was always set at 65. So it would be 10 years early. The average pension is small. Most people do not earn the amounts that are routinely talked about on MN.

This isn't the case for teachers pensions. If the OP has worked all his life, and I assume its as a teacher, then he would be eligible to receive his Teacher pension when he reached 60. Younger teachers will have a different age - either 65 or 67. I am a retired teacher who advises working teachers on the complexities of the TPS. If the OP has been teaching for 30+ years, he would likely be looking at a pension of around £18K a year.