Deprivation of Assets and UC

[V2Schneider]

I am aware of this topic being posted a few times, but having read many of the posts and replies, I can’t seem to find an answer that covers my circumstances.

BACKGROUND
My wife has Myeloma Blood Cancer, had a stem-cell transplant in 2020… now the cancer is back, and she’s back in chemo, and probably set for her second Stem-cell transplant later this year.

My eldest (19) has a recent diagnosis of autism, which explains the difficult times we had with school and education since they were 11.

My youngest (15) has a genetic condition, and attends special school.

I don’t live with them anymore. I also have an autoimmune disease, Vasculitis, and so I am not working.

QUESTION
Since my wife’s illness has got worse, she is finding it increasingly difficult to maintain the house, and garden. So much so that it needs a complete clear-out and repairs etc. My kids don’t have the capacity to help, really, and so things have just got out of hand.
I decided that I have to do something, so I looked to one of my pensions. I have applied for early retirement, but I have to take the initial lump sum all in one go, and that could be between 15-20k…

I am on UC, with LCWRA, and PIP. Having so much money will obviously stop my UC.

i am planning to use the money (£6000 of it initially) to put things right at my wife and kids’ home.
I also wanted to pay for my wife and kids to go on holiday.

so, my question is: Does paying for repairs etc. to my wife and kids’ home, and paying for a holiday for them (by god, they need one!) count as me willingly depriving myself of capital to keep benefits?
Has anyone been through something similar?

The rest of the money I will be using to clear my own debts, and may even take a holiday myself!

TIA

@V2Schneider just a thought.. is your wife able to contact a charity? Maybe a local one or a cancer support one for support to repair the house and garden?

@NotaCoolMum

Thank you.

Just trying to do my best in a world that appears to like constantly dropping bucketloads of cr@p on us :(

But we keep on keeping on… as a family, despite us not living together anymore.

Wishing you and yours all the best as well. :)

In that case were you to get divorced she'd be entitled to a share of yours. Or any other assets you currently have.

You might be best to make a new thread on the legals board setting out that you aren't yet divorced and how can you split your assets in these circumstances.

You may need to spend a little on a solicitor but the more you can agree on in advance and write up, the lower the bill.

I'm in Scotland and here the financial settlement can be done before divorce so you wouldn't have to go through the whole process. But I don't think it works the same way in England.

I'm sure someone here will be able to help you work it out.

and yet all those companies and fancy accountants avoiding tax,

In fact, the garden/fence was originally installed by a charity for my youngest, about 11 years ago. Local yobs, the weather, and the years have taken their toll, I’m afraid.

I contacted various charities and organisations about helping sort the house, but nothing that could be done by charity. Only one I got response from, to do the job, is £750 A DAY… hence the £3k budget for house clearing.

Once upon a time, we used to do it ourselves, we had a lovely place… but time and circumstance have ruined that for us.

Thank you.

Im not sure that divorce, even for circumstances like this, is on the cards.
In all our decisions in life we have to consider the kids… it was such a terrible time when we had to separate; both kids took it very hard indeed. A divorce would just send them back there again, I think.
as it stands now, I’m nearby, I’m available, and things have settled in that respect.

Indeed. I’m here trying to “do things right” and help my family.
The Fat-Cats wouldn’t give it a second thought…

It is a tough one, because even though you are named on the tenancy, you are not living there. If you were operating as one financial unit, then it is easier to argue that doing repair work is part of your ongoing costs. But you would not get UC presumably if you were operating as one financial unit.

If you really are separated, then a legal separation might be best? As part of that you can split assets and pay child maintenance.

and the joe public seem more focused on yourself and using taxparys ££ yet they dont complain about the tax avoidance that companies use,

All the best

Yes, we’re not one financial unit. But that’s not so we can get separate benefits (which was suggested before). I loved our while I was working, so there were no benefits for me then anyway.
But that is where my kids live… whether I’m doing it for the wife, or the kids is a moot point. Just want to do what’s right for them.

Probably be decided we legally separated to get more money! 🙄

There isn’t time for that now, anyway… the money is coming, I just need to figure out what is the best, legal, and morally correct, way if dealing with it.

Yep. When the money we’re talking about here is peanuts (to them, not to us!).

thank you.

I am not a benefits assessor. But if you are not one financial unit, then using money to pay for another financial units costs probably would be seen as deprivation of assets.

Yeah, I get that. But even if that other financial unit is one’s kids? Should be able to do things for their benefit, eh?

Do you have a joint account with your wife? If so if you get your pension lump sum paid into that, I think only half of the money in that account would be classed as yours when it comes to UC entitlement. In which case you would still be entitled to a lesser amount of UC until the savings drop down to under £12k (£6k each). I would do the home improvements first because it would be harder to argue that a holiday is essential. Pay the holiday out of the £12k later.

Who says on this post that people don't care about large companies and tax avoidance? Everyone mis-using the public purse should be dealt with accordingly. Yes, some people might be in dire circumstances, but local authorities and charities generally have services in place to assist practically if needed.

Local Authorities and charities don’t have services that can help me. Believe me, I’ve tried.

why do you think I’ve gone to the extreme measure of taking my pension 10 years early to try and help my family?

Perhaps no one on this thread said anything about tax avoiding companies etc., but generally, in the media, people on benefits etc are vilified for “misuse of the public purse” as you put it, while corporations, lawyers, bankers, and politicians are getting away with billions of pounds worth of tax avoidance and misuse of the public purse.

Anyway, just for clarity, I made this post in an attempt to find out how I can possibly help my family WITHOUT misuse of the public purse!

It very much looks like you are trying to find out how to spend the money on two holidays whilst also claiming benefit money. Let’s say you aren’t allowed to spend money on the holidays, would you be happy with just clearing your debts and doing the house repairs? I would imagine those things by themselves would be fine. Adding in two holidays as well would be going into deprivation of assets territory.

The house clearing and repair to the garden are the main focus here.
and clearing some of my debts.
I thought that was clear, but obviously not.

In my reading of other posts on this subject leads me to believe that a holiday IS an acceptable use of some of this money, particularly where it improves one’s quality of life… it’s a bit like buying a car, which is also acceptable: sure, buses and taxis are a thing, but buying a car instead is ok.

Basically , I’m not trying to find out how to “spend the money” as you so nicely put it, I’m trying to find out how I can legally, and morally, help my family have a better life. Because the one they, and me, are living right now is shite! If I could do this without taking my pension early, I would! This decision to take the pension was the ONLY way I would be able to help my family… if not this, they’d be condemned to live poorly in a place that is not in a good way, until my wife, inevitably, dies.

Yes this is what I meant but I don't know how it's done in England as Scottish system is different.

@V2Schneider I don't think you are understanding properly.

You are focused on how not to deprived yourself of assets in a benefits sense but you are overlooking the fact that if you take a pension lump sum and spend it (however well intentioned) you are depriving your wife of an asset of marriage.

I know that's not what you are trying to do but in legal terms that is what would be happening. If this were not a mutually agreed split and you'd left her then spent your pension pot it would be unfair to your wife as it is not just your asset.

If you don't get something down on paper to agree these things you could find yourself in hot water with both benefits and any future divorce.

Even if you don't want to divorce, a more formal agreement might help you in both circumstances.

This site is helpful in explaining things www.moneyhelper.org.uk/en/family-and-care/divorce-and-separation/divorce-or-dissolution-how-we-can-help-with-your-pension

A further question has occurred to me:

Savings between £6000 and £16000 are dealt with by a taper, so that £4.35 per £250 for any savings between these amounts?

so, for example, if, after paying my essential debts etc., and any other non-contentious amounts, I’m left with £10000.

£10000 - £6000 = £4000

£4000 / £250 =16

16 x £4.35 = £69.60

so I would lose £69.60 from my monthly UC?

Thank you for that. Nothing I can find mentions shared assets when still married… no end of google searches gave me information unless the couple were divorcing.

I’ll take a look at you link. 👍

Utilise a loan or credit card to pay for what you need for the repairs and holiday. Then access your pension at a later date and use the lump sum to pay off the loan or credit card.

If you have both a DB and DC pensions you might find it more beneficial to access the DC pension first as this has greater flexibility in draw down.

From this section, it would seem that the wife is not entitled to half my pension. The only entitlement she has is if I die…

“If you’re married or in a civil partnership and separate
If you separate without legally divorcing or dissolving your* *civil partnership, you won’t be able to formally share your partner’s pension.
But you might still be entitled to a spouse’s pension or lump sum when they die.”

🤔