Pension Credit/Pip and my bloody dad!

[VillageFete]

Hi,

Any help will be massively appreciated.

In short, my dad is a nightmare. All of my adult life i’ve had to mop up the many messes he finds himself in. He is always cutting corners, making bad decisions and gives no thought to the future. I ended up on antidepressants because I couldn’t cope with his demands anymore, it’s genuinely that bad.

I feel some kind of weird loyalty to him, as there’s no one else to advise him, but i’m a working mum of 3 young kids and i’m just about staying afloat myself with all of the admin of my own life. I’m busy, and i’m stressed (Aren’t we all)

He is 69 year’s old. No private pension. Multiple health issues, such as unstable angina, abdominal aortic aneurysm, kidney stones, musle/muscularskeletal issues, mobility issues diverticulitis.. I could go on. I deal with all medical appointments and take him to them, which is a massive task and very difficult to manage.

He has, without a doubt, ADHD. He’s often manic at times and he jumps from one thing to another and cannot tell you a simple story, or answer simple questions without going off on a huge tangent. He’s very difficult to understand and you can never get the full story with him.

Anyway; 5 year’s ago I sorted out a PIP assessment for him. He was awarded the full whack. It was a stressful time but I felt relieved that he had some support in that respect.

When he reached pension age, I sorted all of that out. He assured me he had very little in savings and so pension credit was sorted to top up his state pension (He has no private pension) Again, I felt relieved that this was dealt with and grateful that he had some kind of security.

He lives in a small house in a deprived area. His rent is paid for him, due to pension credit I assume, or would or be paid anyway because he of pension age and is awarded full PIP? I don’t know.

He calls me yesterday and tells me that he wants to come off pension credit. I couldn’t get to the bottom of why, other than he has some money due to him from somewhere, he wants to invest it in shares, he will earn excellent money from this blah blah…. I’ve heard it all before and these schemes never work out. He says it will need to go in to his bank account and he can start working again (He is NOT fit to work, plus is 70 this year) Buying and selling at auctions, as well as investing in all of these shares.

I don’t know his full financial situation, I cannot make sense of the things he tells me and very often he says one thing and then changes his story down the line.

I think he’s bored, fed up and is seeking the next thrill. He doesn’t like sitting around doing nothing but unfortunately his health dictates that quite often, he has to.

I’m just exhausted with him and am appealing for advice!

If he comes off pension credit, will his rent not be paid? Does he need to come off PIP too if he’s earning a wage in the future based on these shares he’s banging on about?

I’m in the process of going for power of attorney for him, and feel as though i’ve got to help him make the right financial decisions, but with 3 young kids and working myself I am absolutely run ragged and just don’t know where to start with all of this.

He has been nothing but a burden my whole adult life 😞 He doesn’t see me as his child, he sees me as some kind of PA.

That sounds like a really difficult situation OP and it’s not surprising that you get frustrated and stressed with your father.
I don’t know the details about pension credit but I do know that the PIP is not means tested and it isn’t affected by whether he is ‘working’ or not.
It’s impossible for you to advise him properly without knowing his savings and income so it will help when you get POA.
FWIW, you sound like a really kind and supportive daughter and I’m not sure he really deserves that. Remember to look after yourself too as you have plenty to deal with even without his shit.

Forgive me if I’m wrong, but if he’s in receipt of state pension surely he gets Attendance Allowance not PIP? Regardless, they are not means tested benefits so even if he won the lottery he would still get them,
Regarding Pension Credit, he needs to inform the DWP of any money he receives that takes him over the threshold.
what he does with that money is his decision, leave him to it

@Coffeeandwalnutcakes Thank you. I really do appreciate it. I tried to put boundaries in place, but it only seems to work temporarily. I know things can’t continue like this though.

@Soontobe60 Thank you very much. I appreciate your reply. He was awarded PIP a couple of years before he reached state pension age, so this may be why he’s not on attendance allowance.

I know I can Google this, and I will. I just don’t have the mental strength to start digging around online this afternoon (Baby needs her lunch etc..) But will do later when she & the others are in bed. I don’t suppose you know the threshold for pension credit off the top of your head?

And you’re correct, he should be left to it. I just know when shit hits the fan with it all, i’ll be left to try and “fix it”

If you are awarded PIP for a certain number of years prior to pension age, eg at age 64, you will carry that forward into state pension age. Otherwise the claimant must claim Attendance Allowance. Neither are means tested. It's advantageous for claimant to be able to carry PIP into state pension age, as it has a mobility component and AA does not.

What length was his PIP award for, OP, can you remember? Was it ongoing or for a set amount of years and then there would be a review?

You can get pip and attendance allowance at the same time.

You can't get attendance allowance and carers allowance at the same time,

You could try and make an appointment with your local citizens advice office. They have benefit specialists, you could take your Dad along so the advisor can go through it with both of you.

@TheCrowPeople Thank you for clarifying. I do recall him having an assessment, but I’m pretty sure after that assessment he was told that was it, it was indefinite. It’s very difficult to remember because honestly there’s been so very many issues with him and I simply lose track. I could just be wishful thinking, but I do recall something about him not having another review?

It does confuse me a little as I’m fortunate enough to never have needed to claim any benefits, so am not particularly well versed in them, although I probably should be after all of this with my dad.

Isn't it PIP if you claim before state pension age?

@saveforthat Thanks. I’ll take a look in to this.

I’m just worried that he’ll come off pension credit, have to pay rent, his plan of having very lucrative shares won’t come to fruition (Seen it all before, multiple times) And then he won’t be able to pay his rent and i’ll have to then figure something out, which will cause me more untold stress.

No you cannot. A person has to claim either PIP or AA.

Sounds like he needs a social worker tbh.

In the nicest possible way - put your own mask on first. You need to prioritise yourself and your children.

Your dad is an adult and it is not your job to keep picking up the pieces every time he makes a mistake.

Contact adult social services and tell them he needs assistance in getting to/from his hospital appointments. Set yourself a strict schedule - you will pop over and see him, say, twice a week for an hour or two to help out with any tasks. If he needs more help than that the ln again adult social services can be contacted and a care plan put in place.

You will be no good to your children and your employer if you burn out, so put those boundaries up now.

Yes, I do think it's likely he got an indefinite/ongoing PIP award at the age of 64. That's £798 pcm if he's on the top rate for both components (although NB it's paid into the claimant's bank account 4-weekly).

This is not means-tested, so your dad doesn't have to give this up. So he would have that safety net at least.

But really OP, you need to tell him for your own sanity that you can't help him any further as it's all getting too complicated. You could ask for an adult care assessment for him, and a carer's assessment for yourself - these might lead to some sort of local authority package in time. At least get his name and address in the system.

Yes he'll lose his help with rent and council tax. Something similar happened to a close friend, and it was a massive ball ache getting the money spent, and her benefits reinstated. Could he give you this money, to invest on his behalf?

Could he give you this money, to invest on his behalf?

Don't advise that - what another level of stress that might bring!

Honestly OP you sound utterly run into the ground with his demands and childish behaviour.

He's stealing your energy from your children. Every time you research his latest stupid financial thinking, or comes up with a mad plan, you need to start developing a disconnect muscle. It's hard - i've been there.

But honestly.. you sound like he's a bottomless pit of effort and anguish, and the time to put a stop to it and for him to grow up was years and years ago.

What you've basically said is: by your own hard work, you've got him the right support, you've jumped through the admin hurdles to make sure he's safe and warm and housed.

Now he's talking about throwing all that away.

No doubt his backup plan is for OP to sort it all out again once it goes wrong.

OP, what are you DOING to your own family and kids here? Wake up and step back for their sake - if you can't do it for yourself, look at them the next time they need you, and know that all this energy you're sending across to him, should go towards them, or even YOU.

I really can’t tell you how much I appreciate the replies and the great advice. Thank you 🥺

I wasn’t expecting people to show concern for
me either, and that means a lot.

Will absolutely look in to an adult social worker.

I just have this sinking feeling that him coming off pension credit and having to pay his own rent will end in disaster. Realistically, how will he afford it whilst on state pension and PIP should his latest scheme not work out.

I took him to a hospital appointment last week and he ranted and raved about an LGBTQ+ poster on the wall. I was mortified and ashamed. He nearly gave himself (another) heart attack. He is so very difficult to be around.

Since writing my original post, he has sent me countless pictures of a designer watch that someone is selling, asking me does my partner or anyone I know want to buy it. In all honesty, he will likely be buying it off said person and looking to sell it and make a profit. I want no part of any of this. I don’t know where it’s come from and i’m not interested, but this is the kind of thing that he does, time & time again. He’s 70 soon. When will he grow up?

(Sorry, I’ve gone off on a tangent! I know this is the board for money issues, not relationship/family issues, but maybe I should take a trip there)

@DoughnutDonna Oh thank you so very much for this. I know you’re correct and it helps when how i’m feeling deep down is acknowledged. You are spot on, and I know changes must happen.

I would suggest you do, or get his GP to do a referral to adult social care - if he has no social care input yet, they would possibly be able to look at his situation overall and help a little.
I know it's not always a solution but it's worth a try

The problem is you are facilitating him. Just say no. If he wants to stop his pension credit, let him do it! When it’s not a case of making demands and you meeting them, when he has to do his own donkey work the stupidity may stop.

OP, i really wanted to post a follow up here since you've read my post this afternoon. i'm your daughter in this scenario. my mum did something similar for HER parents (my grandparents) growing up, and it got to the point where from about age 9.. i didn't really have much of a mum any more. i think back on that time where she was run into the ground, taking them to hospital appointments, managing their money issues, she was meant to be a SAHM to me and my siblings but honestly.. it was an absolutely crazy amount of elder care that they expected. then one of them fell genuinely ill and couldn't manage and we were spending more time at my grandparents than our own house in the same town. i got out of home because of it all as quickly as i could, and my mum wonders why we didn't have a stronger bond as an adult now grandparents are long gone. because me and my siblings watched her run almost into an early grave with stress herself, and it affected the whole house.

don't be my mum. now she's older and my grandparents (who btw were not thankful, nice people) are long gone, i moved hundreds of miles away and my siblings the same. it's really sad -but if you're pouring all this effort into your dad, are your kids old enough to know every spare ounce of energy goes into helping him, not them?

there needs to be BALANCE when you're supporting someone - you are important. your kids. your husband. everyone's needs matter.

the balance is different in each family, and changes over time. but you can't keep giving him everything he demands and him expecting you to sort it all out.

tbh if he hadn't been like this his whole life i'd ask if he had dementia possibly.

@Porkyporkchop You’re correct. That’s exactly what I do, I facilitate it. He cannot seem to do a fucking thing for himself, and I continuously step in. He will ring my phone non stop until I answer it and deal with his shit. It’s a nightmare.

I went no contact in the summer when I ended up on antidepressants. I didn’t speak to him for 6 weeks. I don’t know how i’ve ended up in this position again.

I think one of the reasons I do facilitate it is because if I don’t, he’ll end up in total shit street and somehow, someway I’d eventually have to deal with fixing that.

@DoughnutDonna Again, hugely appreciate this reply and it’s great to see it from your perspective as the daughter.

I have 2 daughter’s and a son. My eldest daughter is a teen and she witnesses all of this. What you’re saying is a wake up call.

My other 2 are only young.

Re- dementia. Yes, wondered this myself, but he’s always behaved similar his whole life, so it’s difficult to say.

From what you've said I don't believe he meets the criteria for a social worker. That's not underestimating what you do for him, which is above and beyond what's manageable. Sometimes people NEED to crash and burn before they get the help they need. You kind of experienced it yourself when you burned out in the summer. It's the same for your dad. While you're providing this safety net for him, the cycle will continue. Something has to give. You can only control your own behaviour and what you do in this situation, and to me, the only thing you can do is withdraw from his madness. It would be better if you can see this yourself and I hope you reach that conclusion. But until then, I am giving you permission 😉 I am saying you need to let him fall, fail, get into financial ruin, whatever I takes. You're not responsible for him. You're responsible for yourself and your children's right to a peaceful life.

@ConstantIllness Thank you, honestly it’s helping massively to open up about this and for people to tell me it’s lunacy. I have this misguided loyalty to him and non of my friends are truly aware of how bad it is. I never tell anyone, and so it helps to know that it’s not healthy or normal, because sometimes I feel as though if I were to tell people in my life they would say “But he’s your dad. I know it’s hard but you have to help him”