Botwatch 86!!! the continuing saga of MLM. When 99.6% of people joining MLM are destined to lose money is that an opportunity or a scam?

[Spongebobette]

On this thread we are botwatchers - watching multi level marketing bots and exposing their manipulations and misleading claims

You can be pretty sure Yawn wouldn’t be connecting with nature if she was earning loads from NWM, it would be all big gas guzzling cars and designer this and that shoved in your face.

Yawn clearly isn't engaging with anyone judging from the more or less zero interaction she's getting. It's staggering how they all just keep plugging away at these non starters whilst pretending they are so very suck-sessful. Just give it up, get a job for the love of God. It's actually sad to watch. When only your mum and some random flp bot are the only one's liking your crap its time to stop. It's like saying to your toddler their painting is amazing then throwing it in the bin.

I think for some of them being successful or even earning any sort of money from their venture isn’t actually the goal, it’s making them feel good about themselves. Getting a job and joining the world of work is daunting, especially if you’ve had a career gap full of NWM and have no realistic hope of being anyone ‘special’, so seeing yourself immediately look like a professional accomplished entrepreneur/CEO/author online with polished photos and buzzwords stops all those panicked feelings flooding in and does exactly what you want it to. It’s playing shop essentially.

I can relate, I felt the same after waking up a year into NWM and realising it was all a scam and i had to get an actual boring office job, be a nobody and give up my dreams of time freedom, a group of cheerleading women around me and constant holidays as none of it was real. Luckily i was still young enough to grow up mentally and work my way up.

Funnily enough i get paid well to work entirely from home now, have a great team and can actually afford holidays. We can all see Yawn in a parallel universe work her way up in a regular sales or marketing job and have a great life with her debts paid off in a few years. But the demonisation of a J.O.B can get to you.

Thanks for that insight @Mielabel

Yes that’s really interesting @Mielabel

it’s as we always say, it’s like being in a cult

And of course if you have a partner who earns enough to allow you to have a pretend business, with all the manufactured glamour and ‘recognitions’ and positive teamies etc, great, but if you are the main wage earner it’s a different story

very very few can use MLM as the main income for their family

Yes, I was a skint student who couldn’t afford my basic living essentials with MLM so I had no choice but to start at the bottom rung of a job often made fun of (think stacking shelves, flipping burgers etc)., it was a huge blow to my dreams and pride. Sounds pathetic to feel that way but it’s hard work psychologically to admit to yourself you have been sold a lie and will never get that carrot dangled in front of you. This also happens after months or years of brainwashing- get up early, if you’re not making it happen it’s your fault so work harder, join regular team and upline ‘meetings’ where this is reinforced and the most insidious IMO- watch your thoughts as if you are negative this will become your reality and you are only to blame. It’s hard to get out of and is definitely cult-like. Also bear in mind all these ‘friends’ who had cheered you on will be expected to turn their backs on you and you’ll be the outsider, made remarks about and comments on and will be well aware of it- similar to cult ‘shunning’.

If I’d have someone to financially enable me instead... well, I’d love to think I’d still have faced reality and be where I am now but who knows?

Totally agree with you @Mielabel. The temptation of MLM isn't about being daft, it's about being vulnerable. In financial dire straits who wouldn't be tempted by a trusted friend or someone seeming to already have it all who tells you that NWM is the fast and easy way out of difficulty, be that financial, social or emotional with the only barrier being your own efforts and desires.

MLMs deliberately set a trap of easily obtainable rewards/promotions so it looks like you've found your calling and people who appreciate you as quickly as you were promised. It opens up the idea that more effort and focus will correlate with more recognition and reward. Why wouldn't you ignore the loved ones who seem sceptical? And of course that's a really hard thing to walk away from and worse, to admit you've been sold a pack of lies. Especially hard when the people in NWM are telling you that the realisation you're having means you are faulty.

I think it's the encouragement to be dissatisfied with your reality and the people around you that can be so toxic, leaving people lonely when the promises of a better life and of being a different person doesn't materialise. The problem with NWM is it sells happiness as a destination (using their map) rather than a by product of living close to one's values, being authentic and accepting oneself and circumstances. Not self-defeating but a more realistic position from which to make changes. All the empowerment talk of NWM is just a distracting noise while people get moved further away from what helps them.

I really dislike the thought control; teaching people that their thoughts control outcomes and that certain types of thoughts are dangerous and bring consequences for which the individual is responsible. It's the opposite of what is psychologically helpful. It reminds me of people with OCD who are trapped by intrusive thoughts and the belief that thinking a "bad" thought means they will do a bad thing or are a bad person, therefore they must carry out an internal or external compulsion to manage the dangerous/bad thought. Detangling thoughts from facts and demonstrating that thinking something does not cause it to happen can take a lot of work. Yet we have legions of would be NWM "coaches" encouraging people to avoid thoughts because bad thinking is dangerous and brings bad things.

The people who did have financial success in MLM often seem addicted to the validation. In Yawn's case it must be a huge part of why she keeps going. She is also still addicted to the promise of a quick turnaround in fortune. She knows she won't be able to hold down a regular job and will be hard pushed to get one with no skills or long term application for many years. She would have to start at the bottom without the excuse of being young enough to be on a steep learning curve.

As someone who was in Yawns downline the adoration she received is hard to describe- she literally was (and maybe still is?) a celebrity in those circles. The way people gasped and ran over to get a second to say hello or a selfie with her at a FLP event, the awe everyone had, the way people gazed as she was speaking and hung onto every bit of advice she gave- it’s literally was if she was a well-known person from TV.

@Mielabel it's so interesting to read your perspective. I can believe the adoration back in the day. I think that has fallen away to an extent for all of them. Yawn seems to be an abrasive character and doesn't seem to have had many friends on the inside which hadn't helped her reputation.

What was your experience of the attitude towards you when you decided to leave. Did she or others change behaviour towards you or were you able to quietly quit?

I think the heady success of the 2016 era went to their heads, they were worshiped by the lowly bots, spoke on stage and treated like a celebrities and then bang, welcome to the real world! I bet Yawn can't understand why the world isn't worshipping her..

It's very clear yawn for example is struggling with not being top cat any longer. If she were so then this latest spam scam would of flown amoung her rose lensed victims. How times change

Totally random question, but with the big cheques, is that the amount they would actually receive presumably? No tax deduction on the payment?

As independent business owners (I use the term loosely) I guess they will be responsible for their own tax returns via self assessment. Yawn has got herself in a mess by using loans from her company though.

Yes that's the amount they would have got, the tax was taken off prior the cheque was printed.

Yes the last time I saw her at an event would have been around 2015/2016 era when I was already half ‘out’ mentally.

One thing that stuck in my head from her talk is saying she collects good photos and schedules posts- the majority of the time they are false, she’s having a lie in and it says she’s out at gym etc.

She posted a butterfly pic this week, that must have been from the summer.

i joined back in the days where there were loads of new people so after the initial love bombing and invitations it quickly fizzled to nothing once I wasn’t performing well. Once I actually left she’d probably forgotten I even signed up, although I’d been trying incredibly hard the whole time! I imagine it would be different now there’s fewer people.

What tax would be taken off? Bots are classed as independent bizniz owners i.e. self employed. As such they are required to complete self assessment tax returns and pay any tax and NI direct to HMRC. Income of below £1000 exempts them from this (Trading Income Allowance) as long as it is their only source of self employment.

Some bots have set themselves up as limited companies. Technically they are then employees (directors) of their own companies so any income they take from the company is subject to PAYE. The only other legal way to get money from the company is to borrow it, but there are strict rules about how quickly that needs to be repaid before PAYE becomes due on it. Limited company accounts are in the public domain, which is how many of us are able to puzzle as to how Yawn manages to carry over her massive director’s loan year after year.

I’ve often thought HMRC would have a field day with MLM bots. Very few would have any taxable profit but nevertheless they are required to keep full business records, to prove they don’t need to self assess. Without full and contemporaneous records HMRC are entitled to issue estimated assessments. Such assessments, with the accompanying fines and penalties from HMRC going back as far as they like, would soon mount up. They have targeted other industries in this manner ruthlessly.

You’d think that the MLMs, being all about caring, empowerment and success, would educate the bots in the importance of preparing records in case HMRC pounced …..ah, but then the bots might learn their way around a spreadsheet and come to understand exactly how much money they are not making…..it’s a quandary to be sure.

No tax taken off, the cheque is the full amount 'awarded' to the bots.
It is then up to the bots to comply with tax regulations in their jurisdiction and according to the status of their biznis- sole trader/limited company etc.

@FungusTap If there are no 'full and contemporaneous records', HMRC would have to base their estimate on the bots' public claims of 'earning seven figures', 'six figure days' etc? Now that would be fun

The fact that some bugger recruited a ‘skint student’, knowing they would hardly have a chance to make money, SAYS IT ALL

The about the photos makes SO much sense now you say it. You wouldn't have your windows wide open in December, and a butterfly wouldn't come in otherwise. All smoke and mirrors...

We definitely had an exchange recently about one of the bots posting something that couldn't possibly be in real time, but rather just something wheeled out to validate whatever fiction was being peddled at the time. It was probably Yawn. I think we commented about the beam of light photos being unlikely given that the day she was targeted by the beam of light was a particularly rainy day in Yawnsville! Or perhaps there were just rain clouds over the local haters!

She does give the impression of being super busy but I think we've all speculated that she must spend a lot of time doing hair and make up for posts and changing into different outfits to record posts to be released at different times, and is probably spending her days watching daytime TV.

Being so inauthentic must be exhausting.

Doing a full face of makeup before going for a run is essential though 🙄

Has anyone signed up for Uber's monthly newsletter? I plan to later. I'm expecting to see all the classic lies about a work/life balance and being a "better parent" while sharing edited highlights and what should be private moments of her family. She says that she is pleased to announce her team is back at the top in the UK which means she is now top of a country no longer worth mentioning by the Americans in their broadcasts about FLP success.

Do downlines have any choice? Could someone like Speccy defect to what looks like a more successful operation. I can't remember who Yawn's upline is. Uber is obviously upping her game and one way or another that's got to be bad news for Yawn hasn't it?

Isn't Yawns upline the bot whose last name was the parasite prescribed as a cure all in medieval times?