PIP "Vouchers to replace money"

[QueenAnn]

Just read the latest crazy idea from Rishi in his quest to persecute the mentally ill and disabled and am horrified to learn he wants to replace PIP money with vouchers for therapy or home improvements. This idea hasn't been given the go ahead yet but is going to be discussed in July apparently. My dh has severe mental health issues, psychosis, GAD, depression etc and he's under the care of the local CMHT. He's also been assessed by the council Social Care Assessment team as needing assistance and respite care, however I've been told there isn't the funding locally to cover everything he's been assessed as needing. It's a good thing he has me as his full time carer but I wonder how carers are going to be affected if this voucher scheme goes ahead as I, and many others, rely on carers allowance to compensate for the hours we can't work due to caring for someone. It honestly feels as if there is some terrible news for the disabled and vulnerable coming from Rishi every day now.

'and are fully capable of doing so'

As tons of posters have said: no, we are not

Not necessarily.
Perhaps he owns his own home.
Perhaps he has significant savings.
Perhaps he won a legal case with a payout for injuries caused.

Because PIP is not means tested. If a person has no other income and approaches the DWP to make a claim, they will be entitled to UC or IS it ESA. If they have high savings or a working partner, or they are able to work themselves for example then ok, maybe not. But nobody is expected to live on PIP alone.

In that case his savings are taken as income and he is expected to support himself from savings until they reduce back under the threshold. That isn’t the situation you were originally presenting.

You are still entitled to benefits as a single adult if you live with a parent who works.

Yes you are but some people can't easily manage the requirements of maintaining a benefit claim so don't bother - or their relatives don't bother on their behalf - because they don't need housing costs covered and they have their PIP. The man who the Telegraph column was about being an example.

I grouped parents and spouses in together for ease but you're correct the reason why such a disabled person might not claim ESA or UC in those circumstances does differ.

If you have a working spouse it is presumed that you share income. I know this as I previously lives with someone who was unable to work and I know what he was receiving before he met me, during and afterwards. Nobody is expecting unpaid carers to do this work, the services are there, use them. At least then the government will get a realistic picture of the demand. You seem to think I’m fighting against you, I’m really not.

Yes, I'm aware. But the working spouse in that scenario often has a lot on their plate and probably no energy left for complicated expense-based monthly systems of submitting and justifying everything.

We got into this because you were insisting that people who claim PIP and can't work would also be claiming ESA, which would passport them through to assistance with the admin. They don't necessarily, so they aren't and they won't.

I'm arguing with you at length because you're defending - at length - a right wing proposal borne out of unpleasant beliefs about disabled people. A proposal that would make the lives of disabled people significantly harder if implemented, and also a proposal designed to cut benefits spending on disabled people.

Given some of the other things you've said, it's unaccountable to me that you're so keen to be an apologist for this horrible idea, but apparently you are .

I know PIP is not means tested. I work full time and get PIP. I own my own house. I am not entitled to any benefits.

Because PIP is not means tested. If a person has no other income and approaches the DWP to make a claim, they will be entitled to UC or IS it ESA. If they have high savings or a working partner, or they are able to work themselves for example then ok, maybe not. But nobody is expected to live on PIP alone.

But what if they have a working spouse who they live with? Who shoulders the admin if they can't?

It’s exactly the situation I was presenting. I’m in that situation myself.

Just for the record I was not at all claiming that people who claim PIP all receive ESA at all. I was insisting that PIP would not be their only income unless there were other circumstances. I know several people who claim PIP and hold down the same job I do. They would be more than capable of claiming the expenses. The people who are not capable will need to receive support as I said.

Yes, in that situation you only receive PIP because you have other means of supporting yourself. If you didn’t, you would be receiving means tested benefits and would not be expected to live on PIP.

Just for the record I was not at all claiming that people who claim PIP all receive ESA at all. I was insisting that PIP would not be their only income unless there were other circumstances. I know several people who claim PIP and hold down the same job I do. They would be more than capable of claiming the expenses. The people who are not capable will need to receive support as I said.

Okay but you were insisting that (via esa or otherwise) every disabled person would have access to someone whose job it was to help with the extra admin (if needed).

Millions of people can't even access the statutory services they should be entitled to (like timely healthcare, like physio, like direct payments). It's laughable to suggest there would suddenly be more help available.

I respect that people think I’m defending the proposal. I’m only speaking the truth as I know it and see it. Which is slightly different from the view from the Houses of Parliament I suspect.

The services are there. That’s what these people get paid for so we should use them!

It's just a headline-grabbing piece of performative cruelty IMO.

Sorry for all those this will scare

WHERE?!
Sorry to shout, but I'm really very confused as to where you think this support is coming fom.

Even if it happend and it won't - those getting the vouchers, some of them that now misuse the money will still do so but exchanging vouchers with like-mided shopper keepers and helpful friends and family

It may be rare but I've had clients that were on benefits and they used to by at least 10 lottery tickets along with those that smoked xx cigs a day and smoke drank and smkoed to excess.

Therefore, idea looks well intentioned but it wont work and is only hype

The services are there. That’s what these people get paid for so we should use them!

You have to be kidding. Everything has been cut and rationed due to limited funding, or there are long waiting lists. Local government services, particularly, have become a virtual desert, although if you're very lucky you might benefit from the postcode lottery aspect.

It's not well-intentioned. It's really, really not.
It's clearly designed to scare disabled people (see all the threads stressing about it on here), and to appeal to a certain voter demographic that thinks we're all feckless scroungers.

This…. I am on my knees and have very little left to give… I have looked after my now adult son his entire life through major life limiting health conditions, adhd, asd and the resultant depression and anxiety. My husband left and CSA were useless so we get no support from him financially or otherwise… I nursed my Mum for seven years and now my elderly father who has had a stroke all while supporting my son..
I have had to fight for so long that I have nothing left.. my own health is gone ( I nearly died last year due to lack of GP care causing my stable asthma to become unstable), I have no pension and I’m lucky if I have £23 left in my account at the end of the month…
We have nothing left to give, we carers spend our days looking after others, filling in endless bloody forms for dwp who say stupid things like ‘his condition has the potential to improve’ ( it doesn’t- it’s a death sentence and he is on borrowed time)
Those of you saying ‘it’s just like filling in expenses’ how would you feel filling in expenses forms after you havnt slept for 20+ hours repeatedly for over 20years…
I managed to get three hours unbroken sleep today but I will pay for it for the next 24hours..
We are broken, we are tired and we have nothing left so yes we might just hand our young adults/parents/family members over cause we have nothing left to give

True.

I don't like that the Overton window is being pushed though.

There's a slight whiff of eugenics about this proposal, as a PP outlined.

So sorry @Potentialmadcatlady - it's such a grind. I hope things somehow improve for you.

This would be a good moment for Labour to start making some counter proposals about support for carers and disabled citizens. Taking the Carer's Allowance system much closer to the Irish system would be a start.

Well, yes. But you keep insisting that people do get other benefits and how easy it all is.

There aren’t any services! The best option is usually if your health condition has a charity connected to it, and if they have financial helpers to help you.

There are no services to do the forms for benefits - only advice agencies.
I asked my social worker and there are none. I literally have a nervous breakdown over the forms.
It’s too much admin.. too much time.

I feel like I’m running a business not being a carer

My son wants to cook a specific meal for his residential night at life skills - would much rather help his practice that then flipping forms.

We will all throw in the towel if they throw anymore at us. I think it’s the only way.

My sons costed needs will be about £1800 per week plus accommodation

Makes PIP seem cheap!

RS and his government can stuff it!

The brilliant thing is that I can then be my sons PA for part of the time at £15 per hour plus holiday pay and pension. If I do only 15 hours that’s £225 per week - 3 x carers allowance for only 15 hours care - the rest can be done by agencies at £30 per hour plus there is accommodation costs or housing benefit for him.

RS that PIp is looking a bit cheap now.

Im on the cusp of giving up being a carer -

I'm reading the replies on this thread and some of them are absolutely heartbreaking. Once again, it was not my intention to scare people, but those of us who would be severly affected by this possible change need to know what's being proposed.