PIP "Vouchers to replace money"

[QueenAnn]

Just read the latest crazy idea from Rishi in his quest to persecute the mentally ill and disabled and am horrified to learn he wants to replace PIP money with vouchers for therapy or home improvements. This idea hasn't been given the go ahead yet but is going to be discussed in July apparently. My dh has severe mental health issues, psychosis, GAD, depression etc and he's under the care of the local CMHT. He's also been assessed by the council Social Care Assessment team as needing assistance and respite care, however I've been told there isn't the funding locally to cover everything he's been assessed as needing. It's a good thing he has me as his full time carer but I wonder how carers are going to be affected if this voucher scheme goes ahead as I, and many others, rely on carers allowance to compensate for the hours we can't work due to caring for someone. It honestly feels as if there is some terrible news for the disabled and vulnerable coming from Rishi every day now.

I don't quite understand what they are getting at though. People with mild depression are unlikely to be awarded PIP in the first place.

Labour have also proposed their own reforms.

Des it involve vouchers?

DS1 has never eaten Nando's in his life, BTW, but if a monthly trip to Nando's helped him not to become completely reclusive then why not? When he was going though a lot of turmoil as a teenager and not eating at all well, I regularly treated him to lunch out somewhere like Frankie and Benny's, funded by his DLA - that was sometimes the first thing he had eaten for days.

Exactly, but who would decide whats reasonable to claim? Would they decide weekly physio could be paid for, or would they decide only every month is allowed? Who makes that decision and on what evidence?

I'm sure this is the simplistic cruel idea behind it. Dissuade some applicants who the Conservatives feel are undeserving by making it difficult for all people who need to claim PIP. Including seriously disabled people with significant needs that impact on their every moment. Let's make it more stressful, difficult, shaming for them to claim what they need! Great idea 🙄

All because it's too tricky to actually look at why there are projected to be so many more people with anxiety or depression needing to claim support, and then address the root cause.

I imagine on the advice of a health professional.

The problem is that many people receiving PIP are unable to work as well as being unable to go out independently or care for themselves. Receiving actual money enables them to spend it on what they need, such as taxi fares, meal deliveries, carers, dossett boxes (now chargeable by some pharmacies) and specialist equipment. As well as many other requirements.

It's another hateful attempt by Sunak to appeal to the segment of society that salivates over any opportunity to give the poor and the sick and the vulnerable a kicking...its utterly vile and shows how truly evil the Tories are. Their utter lack of humanity and decency is disgusting. He knows he is done as PM. He knows the Tories are done being in power and won't be in power again for a very long time hopefully. The Tories are despicable inhumane monsters. It now surely won't be too much longer before we have a General election. We have to get the Tories out before they hurt anyone else and do any further harm to the country or the economy.

How would l pay the people who come into clean my house and sort out the washing with a voucher.

Ive been ill for nearly 3 years. I’m too unwell to do anything.

Would this be a medical professional in the NHS, giving them another job to do while services are being cut?

Or will it be one of the professional assessing people for PIP in the first place? As if so, then so many appeals get upheld I wouldn’t trust them at all.

Health professionals supposedly run the current PIP assessments but anyone who has applied knows how wrong they can get it. People in wheelchairs rejected for mobility claiming they can walk unaided etc.

So a voucher system....

Similar to childcare vouchers?

... And you are seriously thinking this will be a reasonable well funded, sustainable solution which will improve living standards of those in receipt of it?

I think not.

That seems unlikely. It’ll be a company the Tories find no doubt with some backhanders somewhere. Then there will be appeal which probably will be by a health professional and will overturn the previous decision. All of which will take months while you don’t have whatever it is you need.

Not to mention the fact that the whole thing removes independence and autonomy from people with disabilities to make their own decisions and will cost way more than the current system.

If they went ahead and passed that then we would end up having to sell the house and suffer hugely as its pip that helps pay the bills in this house. We already live in one of the poorest and most neglected areas of the country and I'm a 24/7 carer receiving the equivalent of less than 49p an hour whilst sacrificinng my own life and saving the government thousands. How much more can they expect to shit on the elderly, sick and disabled people and their carers?

It sounds like a good plan, but will hardly touch our biggest issue for many who work full time - biggest tax burden for 70 years. We need some massive changes if that is going to be tackled - this is just tinkering at the edges.

Surely their vouchers would just be for taxi fares or incontinence pads. I think it's only counselling vouchers for people with anxiety. I really don't know where he's going to get an army of counsellors from though to pay the vouchers to, because I understood there is a shortage of trained mental health counselors.

I'm so sorry. Its so hard caring for someone. You aren't alone @HashtagShitShop

My friend uses her PIP to pay for a cleaner twice a week and a gardener once a month to cut her lawn. I wonder if she'd be given a cleaner and gardener vouchers? It's in her rental contract she must cut her lawn once a month.

So instead of employing the number of health professionals needed to make 1 assessment of the person every few years they would have to employ enough to make that assessment of the person to decide whether they can get PIP at all and thousands more to assess each individual expense claim as it comes in (and more still to look at appeals on refused claims)?

That sounds efficient and cost effective.

There's so much that is stupid and this just sounds like another thing. How do you provide the vast array of different vouchers that people would need for different things depending on their disability? Who is going to decide if they need that voucher for that thing? Certainly not health professionals, they don't have time for messing around like that.

Or are the government going to pay their unqualified mates huge amounts to assess every person and decide what vouchers they need and whether they need vouchers at all. The Tories seem to be clutching at all sorts of bizarre straws.

You don’t get PIP for mild mental health issues. It’s extremely hard to get PIP at all.

Who signs off on what you're entitled to?

The consultation talks about amending the PIP criteria because the numbers claiming it have soared. Instead of the Govn seeing an increase in eligible people and thinking "wow, people are really ill" and maybe trying to address this through more NHS funding and early prevention etc, they're trying to change the criteria so less people are eligible.

PIP is difficult to get. The country is getting sicker and rather than doing anything about it, the plan seems to be just to make the bar higher to be considered sick.

@Freakinfraser Oh dear you really have got it in for me haven't you! If you read my posts I do actually say I don't want to scare anybody. I'm probably nowhere near as clever as you and might not have the correct facts, hence me asking on mumsnet where I usually get sensible, knowledgeable people like @Babyroobs replying who have a better understanding of these things and would (nicely) tell me if I've got my facts wrong. I only read one article about this (I don't have much spare time with being a full time carer) and I panicked. I'm very sorry if it wasn't the same, more in depth article as you read, or if I misinterpreted it. I'm sorry if that annoyed you but as another poster mentioned, you don't get awarded PIP for "minor mental health issues" so I would think there is not just me worrying about this.