PIP "Vouchers to replace money"

[QueenAnn]

Just read the latest crazy idea from Rishi in his quest to persecute the mentally ill and disabled and am horrified to learn he wants to replace PIP money with vouchers for therapy or home improvements. This idea hasn't been given the go ahead yet but is going to be discussed in July apparently. My dh has severe mental health issues, psychosis, GAD, depression etc and he's under the care of the local CMHT. He's also been assessed by the council Social Care Assessment team as needing assistance and respite care, however I've been told there isn't the funding locally to cover everything he's been assessed as needing. It's a good thing he has me as his full time carer but I wonder how carers are going to be affected if this voucher scheme goes ahead as I, and many others, rely on carers allowance to compensate for the hours we can't work due to caring for someone. It honestly feels as if there is some terrible news for the disabled and vulnerable coming from Rishi every day now.

Well it was DWP work coaches and council benefits officers when I needed help?

There was a letter to the money column in the Telegraoh today/yesterday from the father of an autistic adullt son who is not expected to ever work. His sole income is DLA (soon to be PIP). It's not uncommon.

You are making all sorts of assumptions there. Why would he be claiming income support or ESA, or even UC or housing benefit?

I claim PIP and I’m not entitled to anything else at all.

Presumably supported by parents then? You couldn’t run a household purely on PIP. Or I couldn’t at least!

If they go down the vouchers route it will likely very quickly end up like with the US insurance systems, where everything you need has to be justified as "medically necessary". That can include things like AAC devices (communication aids), suitable wheelchairs, various therapies etc etc. PIP gives us some freedom to spend on what we need, without having to justify every purchase, or worse still, buy it (with what money?!) and claim back.
@ThatBrightBiscuit you compared claiming back to claiming petrol for work expenses. Let's roll with that. At the moment, amongst other things, my PIP pays for taxis in certain situations, due to my particular needs. If I needed to pay upfront and keep the receipts, what would likely happen is just that I wouldn't go out. Firstly, I don't have the money in the first place. Secondly, the additional admin involved would mean that, due to my disabilities, it just wouldn't get done. And when it comes to taxis, who would be deciding what a necessary or justified journey is? Perhaps I could claim back for going to the hospital and back, but getting a taxi to go out and see a friend wouldn't count? I wonder if you've ever thought about the sheer quantity of extra admin work that disabled people have to do on a daily basis as it is, without having to bloody justify every expenditure.

He has zero support from any DWP department, bit odd to decide what is happening to someone you don’t know.

Another vulnerable group the Tories want us all to hate. Refugees, poor people, the sick and disabled. They are toxic.

This doesn’t sound right to me. Presumably you live with a partner or work or otherwise have some kind of other income? PIP is not included in means test calculations so if you don’t have any other income and apply for benefits, you should be entitled to something.

Not odd at all, PIP isn’t included in means tested calculations so I’d strongly consider asking your friend if he is receiving everything he is entitled to. He should be claiming this money if he needs it, that’s what it is there for!

Presumably supported by parents then? You couldn’t run a household purely on PIP. Or I couldn’t at least!

Okay but still a person. What's your point?

Many, many people cant work due to disability but can't get income replacement benefits either because they have a working parent or spouse who they live with.

Do you think those people should lose their PIP if they can't manage the receipts process? Or do you just blithely assume their unpaid carers (relatives) have time and energy to take on the task?

You seem to have this way of assuming everyone is like you and everyone easily accesses a full range of health and disability services.

Getting an assessment for PIP is 68 pages long, then an OT appointment..it is really hard to qualify, so very unlikely to be swinging the lead...

Oh we will give up. Those of us who have brought up disabled children have fought for the education, given up our careers and often are mental and physical health, our marriages have disintegrated under the strain. We bloody well will give up, we’ve nothing else to give. We’re skint, we’re pensionless and we’re fucking exhausted.

Oh we will give up. Those of us who have brought up disabled children have fought for the education, given up our careers and often are mental and physical health, our marriages have disintegrated under the strain. We bloody well will give up, we’ve nothing else to give. We’re skint, we’re pensionless and we’re fucking exhausted.

Push carers too hard and they'll crack up. Nevermind give up.

Sorry you've had a rough go of it.

Yes, they are asking to appeal to a certain type of voter. It’s no more than that. It’s why it’s unworkable and will cost the government more money than the current system. It’s not supposed to work.

The DWP does not offer “support”. It’s quite the contrary. No idea about council benefits officers. I don’t know what they have to do with it.

You are still entitled to benefits as a single adult if you live with a parent who works. If you have a working spouse it is presumed that you share income. I know this as I previously lives with someone who was unable to work and I know what he was receiving before he met me, during and afterwards. Nobody is expecting unpaid carers to do this work, the services are there, use them. At least then the government will get a realistic picture of the demand. You seem to think I’m fighting against you, I’m really not.

The council benefits officers help with housing benefit and council tax reduction and provide support to claim this. I also got something called a discretionary payment which I didn’t know about until they assisted me in claiming it.

I don’t think you have got it wrong.

Why did Rishi mention handrails and home improvements if it’s only for minor mental health?

I don’t see how vouchers would help us. Our home has already been ‘improved’ three times. We’ve gained a wet room and downstairs bedroom but lost our garden and lost value in our home. Vouchers wouldn’t help pay the enormous energy bill we have running his equipment or heating/air conditioning since he can’t regulate his temperature, or mountains of washing as he’s doubly incontinent . Or pay for additional continence supplies (because he only needs to have 4 pads a day). Or save for the huge advance payment that motability require every five year for his wheelchair accessible van (we’re talking £10k). Etc etc etc.

Rishi has no idea what it’s like to live with a disability.

And what happens to carers allowance if there’s no PIP? No doubt he’ll say the carer can just apply for universal credit, which will then mean even more carers not qualifying since their ‘household’ income is too high.

Have you not realised that he is possibly not entitled to anything else?

So true.....now looking at no pension pot due to caring and leaving my much indemand professional job...the knock on to carers is also huge...not to mention DWP crawling back money they think they have overpaid....given up arguing this after 3 years so losing £100 a month...the system is punitive.

It's because it sounds like you are, even though you might think you're not. As another op said, it's the blithely presuming there's magical support, or we 'just show receipts, easy peasy'. It's not. I was a work coach, I had to see 30 people a day, we cannot 'support' in that sense, that's not a dwp job. You seem very naive to how this will effect people telling you it won't work and make life so so much harder unnecessarily

He definitely is if he is a single adult with no other income. That’s not my opinion, that’s the calculation.

But why are you assuming a person who gets PIP is also entitled to any of those other benefits?

I don’t mean to sound as if I’m presuming anything, as I said I am no stranger to this system myself, that’s how I know how it works. But if the government think this PIP being paid unnecessarily then we need to demonstrate that it is not. And are fully capable of doing so!

I asked my son’s social worker can someone else just do the forms - but there is no someone else. Advice agencies just advise. I can’t stand all the administration . I don’t mind doing his shopping, washing his clothes and cooking his meals etc but it’s the admin.

Today his taxi was late by 40 mins so call to transport then to college - college then called back to arrange an escort to the correct place where he needed to be - he then called me from college as he was a bit anxious. I’m the meantime the Pa had been sent no time sheets to complete so email to direct payments agency to get time sheets and make sure she is enrolled.

meanwhile trying to sort out an outing with 20 neurodiverse kids and in general funding for a ND social group … because councils do nothing.

Moreover this week I have to have a sons needs assessment with a care agency to get overnight respite to have a weekend off etc.

The amount of time we have to research all the rules and regs.

Some times I just want to get away from it all - even on holiday we are carers. we have to find a quiet spot - - no loud music - get through security - not forget doing his packing for him - choosing his clothes helping him to shave cut his toe nails - helping choose his food from the buffet - constipation he blocked the toilet 3 times due to bowel issues - we had to tip the maid and handyman - would that be a pip expanse. etc

So I’m so so angry about some rubbish ministers stupid suggestions.

Just walk in our shoes you poorly educated ignorant idiots!