PIP "Vouchers to replace money"

[QueenAnn]

Just read the latest crazy idea from Rishi in his quest to persecute the mentally ill and disabled and am horrified to learn he wants to replace PIP money with vouchers for therapy or home improvements. This idea hasn't been given the go ahead yet but is going to be discussed in July apparently. My dh has severe mental health issues, psychosis, GAD, depression etc and he's under the care of the local CMHT. He's also been assessed by the council Social Care Assessment team as needing assistance and respite care, however I've been told there isn't the funding locally to cover everything he's been assessed as needing. It's a good thing he has me as his full time carer but I wonder how carers are going to be affected if this voucher scheme goes ahead as I, and many others, rely on carers allowance to compensate for the hours we can't work due to caring for someone. It honestly feels as if there is some terrible news for the disabled and vulnerable coming from Rishi every day now.

How do you manage to get a blue card with less than 8 pip points for mobility?

Blue Badge eligibility and the mobility part of PIP aren’t related - ie, you can be entitled to a Blue Badge without the mobility part of PIP. Most people I know with Blue Badges don’t get PIP at all.

The Conservatives won't win the next election anyway so it's a moot point. I do think Labour will also try to get less people claiming pip too though. Since the pandemic the number claiming for MH has gone through the roof. I'm not saying they should not claim it. It's up to the government to get more counselling available for MH.

A young disabled person who is not able to work would also get Universal credit if not on the old ESA system. It is around another £780 a month on top of PIP. The only thing that would rule them out of claiming is if they have savings more than 16k or a working partner but even then there may be some UC entitlement.

Because most councils offer the chance to apply for a discretionary one.

Oh he’s just panicking and probably has a focus group made up of daily mail readers . His next great idea will probably be to send PIP recipients to Rwanda as well.

You sort of have to hope that someone with some sense has infiltrated Tory Hq and is telling Rishi his ideas are great because let’s face it they are so bad he’s running the campaign against the conservatives himself at this point 😂

I have a friend on enhanced rate for both components yet doesn’t qualify for a blue badge (due to MS) but because she got a certain number of points but in the wrong section it wasn’t automatic entitlement like it used to be

He's just coming up with a bunch of stuff he knows he'll never have to implement.

I wouldn't be surprised if we have an election during the summer just so that he isn't in power when no planes leave for Rwanda, and the Tories can spend the next five years saying that the only reason that plan (and all their other completely unworkable nonsense) didn't pan out is because labour pulled the plug.

You see I am so torn here .. my lived experience on a multi agency team involved in trafficking , county lines and modern slavery KNOWS that there are so many people abusing the system .. almost EVERY drug dealer we nick is claiming PIP ..80% of whom are delivering drugs whilst on pip and 30% are in motability cars because they 'are too anxious to leave the house without someone to accompany them .. and therefore get the mobility component .. that's ONE very small town ... BUT .. I also know that people with genuine, debilitating, and severe MH problems are NOT claiming or have been knocked back because their illness makes the process beyond anything they can cope with ..

I honestly don't know how it can be fixed .

Those in receipt of PIP, even the lower rate, have complex medical conditions, none have "minor issues". Oh, the irony of telling others to educate themselves...

Tell me you know nothing about PIP...🤦‍♀️

Why are you advocating that those in receipt of PIP should be made to jump through MORE hoops to please the Tory government? Its like some kind of warped Stockholm Syndrome.

@SpoonyFish Thank you!

I seriously think that the government, and Labour too, after hearing them speak this morning, are actually confusing PIP with LCWRA / LCW that you get with universal credit if you are not well enough to work

The reason I think they are muddling it up is because they keep saying things like 'you risk losing your PIP if you work'

This would give them the opportunity to try working

But many people who have PIP DO work. In fact PIP ENABLES them to work. Maybe it gives them the mobility to get there, maybe it helps for adaptations or support to assist them, perhaps it helps pay for a PA /carer to come with them, depnding on what they do.

PIP is notoriously difficult to get - as many have alluded to on this thread. The fraud rate is minimal. So much so that when targets to cut the bill by identifying fraud came along, a while back, they were chucking too many people off because its not a benefit thats generally abused. Tribunal rates are high, and awards after tribunal are really high, demonstrating that its far more likely for them to deny PIP incorrectly than for someone to fraudulently claim it.

LCW/LCWRA however is much less strenuous a test - that IS literally the 'sick note' because it doesnt require the vigorous vetting of PIP. Yes many people with PIP get it, because they cannot work, under any circumstances. And some get it and can work a bit (my daughter is in this category - her capacity for working fluctuates greatly)

LCW and LCWRA give you a boost to your universal credit, and you dont need to fulfil the jobcentres requirements to be actively looking for work. In the higher group you dont need to be doing anything to prepare you for looking for work.

The amounts are not huge - top rate £390 a month.

My suspicion is that they know damn well what they are doing, by muddying the public's misunderstanding of the two different benefits. They know the general population have no idea that PIP is so hard to get, that you CAN work on PIP, they all know 'someone' who is 'just claiming disability' and getting money. Many people who would never qualify for PIP, especially people with MH issues, or bad backs, or depression may yet get LCWRA. But the public know that PIP is a payment that disabled people get, and assume thats what everyone is getting, and oh the bill is so huge with all these people out of work claiming sickness, we need to do something.

PIP needs an overhaul - yes, but not in the way that is being suggested at all. It needs to stop having assesments for those with longterm ongoing issues that are never going to resolve, and it needs people who actually understand the conditions that people are presenting with to administer the applications, and stop viewing the disabled with suspicion.

Please no-one worry about this, it is 100% not going to happen and Rishi will never get back in to power.

But I heard Rachel Reeve talking the same bollocks this morning on R4 - the same misrepresentation - she literally said 'some people risk losing their PIP if they try working and so they dont try - so totally mixing up PIP with something like LCWRA, and suggesting that PIP is an out of work benefit payment.

earlier last year there was talk of ONLY allowing LCWRA if you had PIP - which again is ridiculous, because short term/transiant disabilities or illnesses may make work untenable, but wouldnt hit the PIP markers.

most people who want to work but cant need support from the NHS - either MH support, or they are in a long long queue waiting for treatment or appointments.

Yes !!! You all need to understand that this is pure ELECTIONEERING.. it's pandering to the Tory heartland of over 70s ALWAYS VOTE, DAILY MAIL READING CONSERVATIVE ... who have enough money to 'go private' if health problems ever arise be it MH or physical...

You can ALL do something.. make sure you are registered to vote AND make sure you have voter ID. !!

I don't want to influence your vote .. just make sure you do it .. or you have absolutely NO RIGJT TO COMPLAIN ...

@caringcarer I applied for it by filling in the forms and going through their own process. Luckily you don't need pip to qualify. I used the same exact medical evidence as I used for pip, and I've had two pip reviews since getting it but having a blue badge doesn't prove I have issues with mobility for some reason.

LCW doesn't give extra money on universal credit, but LCWRA does.

My 22 year old gets LWCRA and it's quite a hefty increase in his UC - he gets 680 odd a month as opposed to 311 standard rate.

I actually found LWCRA quite rigorous and in our case harder to get than pip (I appreciate this isn't everyone's experience,). We had to attend a face to face interview and a report was written; we were initially placed in the wrong category (LCW,) and I had to ask for mandatory reconsideration. Pip we were awarded straight away on the strength of our submission.

Because the OP clearly knows that with the Tories, once they start on one group of people, it will quickly be rolled out to everyone else. I'd love to know how vouchers will pay my care bill.

The average disabled household faces costs on average of £950pm greater than able bodied households. Many of these people (myself included), worked very hard prior to becoming unwell, and paid their contribution into what is purported to be a "safety net".

Very few disabled people feel safe under this system. They feel demonised and persecuted and their life not worth living, because some decision maker within the DWP has said so.

The disabled deserve a quality of life just like anyone else, and removing their autonomy to make choices from themselves is - literally - just another nail in their coffin.

Do you mean the dental hygienist who did my last assessment for my multiple disabilities that have sod all to do with my teeth?!

@MelissaLouRocks Well said! Both myself and dh worked and paid tax and NI for over 40 years before he became ill and lost his job and I had to leave my job to become his full time carer. I don't feel guilty about a penny we get from the state in benefits, we aren't shirkers, we are good people who something bad has happened to. Benefits were something totally new to us and after going through the gruelling process of being assessed for PIP the first time dh nearly gave up altogether. How anyone can "fiddle" the PIP system I really don't know, it's the hardest benefit of all to get. No one should feel ashamed or embarrassed for being sick or disabled. Rishi is really scraping the barrel here picking on the vulnerable in order to win votes.

You don't live in the real world.

Due to the way claimants are treated for assessment/reviews it can be the case that some are too scared to try paid work or even volunteering because it will later be used as evidence against them that they can now manage xyz descriptors to cut/reduce their PIP when the reality for disabled people is much more complex. The assessors do the same if have a pet, child or even a driving licence is used to suggest proof of being functional. With certain conditions like MH it's harder to evidence capabilities so can be easier targets.

The Government knows the assessments and sanctions cause mental distress and deaths in the most vulnerable and doesn't care.

The UN committee review found 7yrs on the UK government has made “no significant progress” and showed "signs of regression".
The committee said the UK government had “failed to take all appropriate measures to address grave and systematic violations” of disabled people’s human rights and had “failed to eliminate the root causes of inequality and discrimination” since November 2016.
it accused the UK government of demonising disabled people and treating them as “undeserving citizens” by preparing to fund tax cuts through slashing disability benefits.

the committee says it is “appalled” by reports of deaths linked to benefit claims that it says have a “disturbingly consistent theme”, with disabled people “resorting to suicide” following the denial of adequate support through social security.

https://www.disabilitynewsservice.com/seven-years-on-and-no-progress-on-disability-rights-by-uk-government-says-un/

If you don't know much about historic problems with DWP it's well worth a read of other articles on DNS site.

That support you acknowledge those people would need simply wouldn't happen. Just the same way support for other things doesn't happen currently.

DWP staff don't assist people to make claims. That may be the line government trot out but it's not the reality of what happens. What happens is DWP staff process claims, which isn't the same thing at all. Mostly they actively attempt to block claims, at best they passively don't do anything to help.

These systems of support only exist in theory. In reality, people who qualify for help are lied to by staff of various organizations and told they don't qualify. An outright lie and not accidental, the staff know what they're doing. If staff do admit someone qualifies for help, it's as another poster said, they'll be also told they won't be getting that help "because there's no budget for it". This is literally illegal. It's written into law that they're not allowed to consider their budget when making these decisions of who gets help. But that's exactly what does happen.

Only the:
a) intelligent people who understand they're being shafted in the first place,
b) have time, energy, physical/mental ability and intelligence to research the rules, understand those rules and educate themselves on the relevant law,
c) can afford to go to court if necessary
(or have family who can do all this for them)
are the only ones with a chance of challenging it. Most often the disabled people themselves are totally incapable of challenging these illegal decisions, so they don't get the help they need, whether that is in the form of social care, help from a social worker, or the claiming of benefits.
The help these government systems are supposed to provide simply Does Not Exist.

More people are claiming PIP than ever before because half the country is fucked by Long Covid symptoms which are totally incapacitating them.