PIP "Vouchers to replace money"

[QueenAnn]

Just read the latest crazy idea from Rishi in his quest to persecute the mentally ill and disabled and am horrified to learn he wants to replace PIP money with vouchers for therapy or home improvements. This idea hasn't been given the go ahead yet but is going to be discussed in July apparently. My dh has severe mental health issues, psychosis, GAD, depression etc and he's under the care of the local CMHT. He's also been assessed by the council Social Care Assessment team as needing assistance and respite care, however I've been told there isn't the funding locally to cover everything he's been assessed as needing. It's a good thing he has me as his full time carer but I wonder how carers are going to be affected if this voucher scheme goes ahead as I, and many others, rely on carers allowance to compensate for the hours we can't work due to caring for someone. It honestly feels as if there is some terrible news for the disabled and vulnerable coming from Rishi every day now.

Because it’s exactly as you’ve said. PIP pays for vital, necessary things for people to live a reasonable life. They are entitled to this money. Giving over receipts won’t change what people receive in real terms if they need the money.

Wrong question (although we could give you good answers).

Instead the question(s) should be "What's in it for the exchequer?", "Cui bono?", and "Why does he think this will appeal to Tory voters?"

The subtext is horrible.

How anyone can think it’s right or fair for disabled people to be given vouchers is beyond me.

I get PIP for multiple physical disabilities and can’t see how it would work. I bought some new crutches last week, they cost £150. Who would decide if I could be reimbursed for those? I’m researching a new wheelchair, who is going to decide if the one i choose is worthy of vouchers? I know atm they’re saying it’s for those with mental illnesses, but it won’t stay that way if it got through.

It won’t stop with the disabled either. These things never do, so be careful what you wish for. You’ll be given vouchers for your children’s expenses or your food if you’re on benefits soon, if the Tories have their way.

I don't believe this will be vouchers in the classic sense. I think it's itemized spending at particular retailers. This is very easily done now. What it really is is the death of cash, which is difficult to trace: if you make it like this, no cash spending.

I really wish people would stop focusing on the disabled and the benefit claimers when politicians etc get tax write offs and claim expenses that they shouldn’t

And this is what they’re asking you to do so you just need to do it. It’s not your job to worry about the cost to the state, it’s your job to tick the boxes they have asked you to tick to ensure you receive what you’re entitled to and you can do that. If the government try this and it’s more expensive and it doesn’t work then they will change things again presumably.

That is the point of this. I think the receipt of benefits is likely to come with requirements about banking and spending which is traceable. This will to a Tory eye make it easy to eliminate fraud, because they cannot trace cash. AI will be able to link and identify digital banking spends.

@ThatBrightBiscuit it will place difficulties on people who already have difficulties, and place the burden of admin on them. It assumes that they have the money to pay for things first and claim later. Most will struggle with this, precisely because they have no or limited income. It will cost more money to implement the bureaucracy that will be needed to check each item claimed. Never mind the stigma and shame it heaps upon those who need PIP, with the implication that they're all shysters who would claim for money they don't need.

The only possible reasons to do it are suspicion about what people are spending it on, to electioneer by pandering to the people who are suspicious about the spending, to cut benefits by stealth and, possibly, to send money the way of favoured businesses.

All it actually achieves is hardship (it puts markets, second hand shops and other frugal shopping habits off the table) and an extra layer of administration.

@shellyleppard thank you for the reply. The piece I read mentioned vouchers for "therapy" for people with mental health issues. This worries me as its hard enough getting a therapist now, what's it going to be like when we are all queuing up to see a therapist with our vouchers?

And this is what they’re asking you to do so you just need to do it.

Oh stop posting nonsense. Claimants aren't being asked to do anything. PP doesn't need to do anything. No rules have changed (yet, and they're unlikely to).

This is blue sky, run it up the flagpole, probably uncosted, electioneering.

Can you link the article you read OP?

Queenann my apologies. Yes I see your point.....who is going to provide the therapist I?? As you rightly say its going to be totally impractical if everyone needs them. Nice idea but not really very practical unless he's going to magically provide them x

With the greatest of respect, I would never imply that people who need to claim PIP shysters. Most benefits are means tested, I’ve been in the position myself of requesting help and having to show my bank statements and incomings and outgoings etc to demonstrate need. PIP is administered differently to this and the government obviously feel that they are giving money to people who don’t need it or wouldn’t be able to justify it. So people need to show that they do need this funding and the great thing is that people can easily show this. So if you want to claim the PIP then just give them what they want. Everyone in the country is struggling, I’m not speaking from a position of great privilege myself, I’ve had to borrow money to get to work or buy food for my children and pay it back myself when my expenses came in, sadly that’s a fact of life in this country at the moment. No it shouldn’t be, but sadly it is.

I have concerns about what it is going to count as mental health - if this is partly with an eye to rising ND diagnoses coming through the system then I don't know how this could possibly work. For example, can an autistic young person with fairly high support needs transitioning from DLA to PIP use the vouchers to buy a new pair of ear defenders every month (disability equipment, but no need to rebuy frequently), but not premium-brand foods at the supermarket (which might be three of the seven very specific items they actually eat) as those brands of food are "luxury items", etc etc?

Have you ever claimed pip?

People who don’t need PIP don’t get it. It’s so difficult to get that when people were transferred over from DLA some of those without limbs were told they weren’t disabled enough anymore.

I’m going through the review process atm, which is always nerve wracking, I’ve sent in almost 400 pieces of medical evidence. That’s what you have to do. You don’t fill in a form saying you’re a bit sad and get handed hundreds of pounds a month, which is what the Government are suggesting.

@ThatBrightBiscuit's subtext is quite familiar, if rather disturbing.

As a country we do need to decide if disabled people are a burden on the British tax payer and if that leads us to believe that these people are "useless eaters". Then we need to decide if that is an acceptable path to go down.

What happened last time this was tried?http://www.worldofinclusion.com/res/qca/Lest_We_Forget.pdf

So people need to show that they do need this funding and the great thing is that people can easily show this. So if you want to claim the PIP then just give them what they want

It's not "easy" to have to submit detailed expense claims every month. Some people are too unwell to keep up with it, or it would be another daunting task for exhausted unpaid carers.

It's not easy or cheap for the DWP to have to administer all the extra work tasks, either. It would hugely increase the number of person hours per year that it takes to run a PIP claim. There is already a backlog.

You're posting through your hat.

Not personally but my ex partner used to receive it (and I would say the full amount or close to was spent on his needs too) and I have helped neighbours etc with the forms before.

Absolutely @NerdWhoEatsMedlar

It's a chilling direction to even consider.

@LiterallyOnFire apologies I don't know how to link it (I'm ancient, so rubbish with stuff like) but the article is on Birmingham Live. It just flashed up on my phone earlier today and I read it. It definitely states people with "milder" mental health issues could be given vouchers instead of cash. As I said earlier, I really am not trying to scare anyone, I was scared myself hence posting on here.

Let the DWP worry about their costs. This is what they are asking for. I submit claims for work every month, lots of people do. The people claiming PIP who have significant needs will be claiming for ESA or IS too and presumably will get support with this too. The government are asking for a reason, let them get on with it.

@shellyleppard You've absolutely nothing to apologise for, it's all very worrying isn't it, let's hope, as others have said, it never happens x

I think it will take parliament some time to get a decent plan in place....if at all. Time will tell.....