PIP "Vouchers to replace money"

[QueenAnn]

Just read the latest crazy idea from Rishi in his quest to persecute the mentally ill and disabled and am horrified to learn he wants to replace PIP money with vouchers for therapy or home improvements. This idea hasn't been given the go ahead yet but is going to be discussed in July apparently. My dh has severe mental health issues, psychosis, GAD, depression etc and he's under the care of the local CMHT. He's also been assessed by the council Social Care Assessment team as needing assistance and respite care, however I've been told there isn't the funding locally to cover everything he's been assessed as needing. It's a good thing he has me as his full time carer but I wonder how carers are going to be affected if this voucher scheme goes ahead as I, and many others, rely on carers allowance to compensate for the hours we can't work due to caring for someone. It honestly feels as if there is some terrible news for the disabled and vulnerable coming from Rishi every day now.

I haven't had time to read a lot around it yet. I'm worried for my clients who will no doubt be worried, although I do think some kind of reform is needed. I honestly don't think anything will come of this, it's just a desperate PM of a government in it's dying days. I do think however that whatever party wins the GE will need to make some kind of changes.

I’m a carer for my two adult sons (unpaid) so as well as caring for them say to day, and dealing with an already almost overwhelming amount of paperwork to renew this ir prove that and having a full time job, you also want me to put in expense claims for the extra costs due to their being disabled? How do u quantify the extra electricity due to excess laundry? Can I claim for the ruined carpet in my sons bedroom?

Or would you prefer that all disabled people live in poverty?

@HashtagShitShop that is the exact same position that we will be in. No wonder people are worried.

Where was this reported? I think a lot of charities that support people with health conditions would be challenging Gov with such an ill thought out plan.

How will it be decided what a reasonable expense is?

I pay my mum out of my pip. Without out I couldn't afford the support she gives me. A voucher system would be no good either

It will go to consultation with charities and other organizations/ disability charities etc. But then they do this and take no notice !
They have had a recent consultation on changes to the work capability process for Universal credit and ESA and lots of organizations expressed concern but they seem to have dismissed those concerns anyway and plough on with their proposals.
I think part of the problem is that the income replacement benefits like ESA and basic UC are so low and not enough to live on so people use PIP to top that up. I have one client who is quite mentally ill and alcohol dependent who uses her PIP to stay in a much better house than she would otherwise be able to afford on her basic UC because she feels safe there and trusts the landlord. She doesn't actually use the PIP for anything else much other than alcohol and rent .Take away that PIP and you have a whole host of other problems - rent arrears/ possible homelessness etc., even worsening mental health.

It has been all over the news today I believe as Rishi has given a speech setting out the proposals.

@Babyroobs As always, you are the voice of common sense, thank you. I totally agree something needs to change, I realise there simply aren't the funds available, that became clear to me when my dh has been assessed as needing £300 per week assistance from the local council after having a social care assessment but I'm currently fighting to get him just 2 hours of care per week as the council haven't got the funds. My worry is what will happen to carers in all this, we currently save the government millions. My dh would have to go into some kind of care home if I could no longer look after him and that would cost the government far more than what I receive in carers allowance.

Yes exactly. I'm sorry to hear what you are going through. Councils are going bankrupt and social care is in a mess. In our area both city and county's councils are on the verge of bankruptcy. Councils are even cutting travel for disabled children to get to school which will mean more expense for parents or more stress/ carer burnout as kids won't be able to get to school. It's awful. Everything is awful at the moment. The older people who I visit to complete disability forms for have all but given up with their GP's and hospital care has been terrible for many who have recently been discharged. We see people in their eighties/ nineties trying to look after sick spouses with no help because they can't find carers. People have given up trying to get GP appointments or the NHS care they need, they feel totally forgotten.

It’s an expenses system instead that’s all. People need this money and they spend it on what they need and so they are able to justify it, so what’s the problem? It’s like me claiming my petrol back from work. They know I need petrol to travel, my colleague also needs petrol to travel but her patch is closer to the office so she uses less than I do. Rather than pay us both a standardised amount, we both submit receipts and receive what we need. It makes sense to me.

I don't see how vouchers could work tbh! What I spend my pip on varies month to month as my disability affects me differently day to day. I doubt they'd approve me paying for my pets' food and their other essentials, even though my pets help with my mental health a lot. I wouldn't even trust them to assess what vouchers I need well enough considering I don't get any mobility component and I have a blue badge. My lack of mobility is the main reason why I can't look after myself.

It's a stupid way to make us disabled people worse off. The pip application process is horrendous enough as it is.

If it's just replacing vouchers with money there would have to be a limit so surely people would just spend up to that limit and it wouldn't actually save anything?

Let's face it if they do issue vouchers they'll only be able to be used in certain places and used on certain items which will inflate prices. Like the old Uniform vouchers it will cost those using the vouchers more for an inferior product. More than likely it it'll be more money for the boys. COVID all over again.

As for the respite won't help us as at all my son won't leave me he won't even stay with a family member. The few times we've tried it's not worth his distress.

I get PIP for mobility issues. Vouchers will do fuck all use for me

Massive changes will be needed whoever is in power. People saying it won't happen when Labour are in power are deluded. A Labour government will have to implement sweeping changes over the next 10 years, whether they like it or not. The same as other governments in other countries will also have to do.

AI might just save us. Or it might not.

Yes, agreed, if the full amount is being spent on things that people need day to day then there won’t be any difference in what is being received anyway so I don’t understand the fear around this. You will have to justify something you didn’t previously, yes. But the spend justified, so you will be able to evidence it, don’t worry about it!

How do you then decide what's acceptable and how much? Cash means I can give my mum money for helping me. I can't do that with a voucher

Am I right in suspecting that the people who think this will be fine and work well have mostly never had experience of the DWP and claiming disability benefits?

That requires disabled people to have the money before they can buy stuff and then claim it back. A lot of people on pip can't work (I can't) and pip doesn't always just pay for stuff to help with their disabilities, instead can be used to top up any other income they get to help pay rent/bills/food etc..

Not everyone on pip gets the same amount anyway, the amount is based off of what they think you need, which most of the time is wrong as the assessors lie on reports so the dwp don't have to give claimants as much or give them none at all.

No but I assume in that case you would explain your circumstances to the DWP who would either be able to approve the payment or if not, suggest an alternative. You just have to justify the spend, which you can. If you can’t pay your mum, you employ a carer and claim that back instead.

Labour tried this in 2000-2002 for asylum seekers.

The pilot failed

• lack of flexibility (could only be used in certain stores)
• stigma and isolation when using them
• inefficiency (high costs to run the scheme)
• human rights concerns arising from erosion of dignity and well-being

And that's in a population which is in reasonably normal health. Start adding on the specific additional costs of living with a disability or long-term illness, and the downsides, especially lack of flexibility, will increase.

Bad idea for that population then; just as bad for this population now

The reason it is very unlikely to be implemented is because they won't win the General Election.

The sheer nastiness being aimed at sick and disabled citizens is horrifying, though.

Vouchers is usually a hard right policy proposal for income replacement benefits (playing into the grip that poor people are feckless, lazy and/or addicted). He's probably been playing Policy roulette to copy and paste elements from other initiatives but nevertheless it's a new low to target PIP, which is entirely needs based and not for income replacement. Traditionally, pensioners and the disabled are considered out of bounds for the nasty stuff.

@ThatBrightBiscuit how can you not understand the fear, when people are being told that the system to access the money they need will be made harder to caves with more admin. The reason being, to make it harder for people to access the support cos it costs too much. PIP pays for vital, necessary things to enable people to live a reasonable life. Threatening to make them ask for each specific thing they need to spend it on, itemise it and have to claim for it and hope it's approved?? Of course it's making people afraid. That's the point of the policy.

Queenann.... personally I think he's doing anything he can to get the votes in the next election. But as a previous poster said look at his stopping the boats pledge and how that turned out.....i think the vouchers were for home improvements?? Cos the local council paid for my house adaptation so who knows??

And I'll cost the state more by employing a carer. Assuming I can even get one in the first place.