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Credit card debt but no card

146 replies

Cryingemoji · 01/03/2024 05:07

Hi all

Currently paying off a large credit card debt but now separated from husband.

I'm only listed as an additional card holder, so am I equally liable for the debt?

Also when we began repaying the cards we cut them up & I have no details about the account. How can I find out who owes what?

Thank you.

OP posts:
ftp · 08/03/2024 22:32

It is a bit further down the line, but do not forget to factor in pensions to any divorce settlement. You are entitled to attach his NI contributions to your pension, and a claim against a proportion of his pension pot for yourself.
I assume that you know that if you are child caring and not working, you can claim contributions in your own right

Otherstories2002 · 09/03/2024 07:20

By paying the debt during any financial settlement he is going to have the strong argument you’ve accepted it’s shared debt and that’s why you’re paying.

You need to sever all financial ties. Separate accounts. Claim what you’re entitled to and that includes child support. Nothing else.

Jojofjo44 · 09/03/2024 08:21

Do you have children? And will you be on a low wage? As if both, you'll probably be entitled to UC even when working, plus childcare allowance. There's a great group on Facebook that gives advice and will calculate any benefits that you are entitled to.
Now the biggy. Cancel your joint account today. Any overdraft can be paid off in installments. Make a list of direct debits you need for you and your kids and contact them all via chat today.
You haven't mentioned whether you rent or own home? There's different rules with UC depending on which you do. It is vital that you cut financial ties immediately as it will cause many issues with UC.

Cryingemoji · 09/03/2024 09:38

@ftp I'm only just now finding out about NI credits, I knew nothing about them. I've been a SAHM for many years.

@Otherstories2002 as it stands he is the only one paying the debts as I have no income, hopefully by the time I get a job we will have closed down the joint account.

@Jojofjo44 yes 3 children but 2 are adults now, one of them still at home.

What is the Facebook group please?

I don't think I can close the joint account right now as I'm using the overdraft to live on currently 😔.

I'm currently living rent free in a property owned by family.

Thanks everyone.

OP posts:
Otherstories2002 · 09/03/2024 10:22

Cryingemoji · 09/03/2024 09:38

@ftp I'm only just now finding out about NI credits, I knew nothing about them. I've been a SAHM for many years.

@Otherstories2002 as it stands he is the only one paying the debts as I have no income, hopefully by the time I get a job we will have closed down the joint account.

@Jojofjo44 yes 3 children but 2 are adults now, one of them still at home.

What is the Facebook group please?

I don't think I can close the joint account right now as I'm using the overdraft to live on currently 😔.

I'm currently living rent free in a property owned by family.

Thanks everyone.

There is a credit trail that means you’re part of payment.

EliflurtleAndTheInfiniteMadness · 09/03/2024 11:32

Cryingemoji · 06/03/2024 12:45

Thanks for replying.

I've applied for Universal Credit today but I've been told on another forum that they won't look favourably on the application as our finances are still tangled, so it will appear we're not actually separated..

You can be assessed as a single person if seperated even in situations where the couple is seperated under the one roof. Of course it's harder to prove and can take longer because you'll have to provide enough evidence that you are actually seperated. The more things you can do to show that the better, things like taking him off the council tax, any house related bills you can transfer into your name. That may be tricky financially but the more proof you have the better your chances. More immediately if he's got a rental agreement for the place he's moving into that should constitute some proof at least. If he sends you CM ask him to call it that on the transaction. Tell people if you haven't already that you're separated.

As a PP said if he puts money into the joint account you can move it to your account, it becomes joint property effectively. Id weigh this up cautiously, he's likely to pay nothing else if you do that. but being realistic you might need to do it anyway. Id be counting on him not paying anything after he moves out anyway. Once UC is approved you can apply for an advance payment.

Hairdyemistake · 10/03/2024 01:38

I'm only just now finding out about NI credits, I knew nothing about them. I've been a SAHM for many years.

Gosh OP this is a mess. Never mind, better late than never. For at least some of the time you were claiming child benefit (as long as it was being paid to your name not his) you will have (automatically I think) been credited with NI payments.

You can ask for a pension forecast. This will tell you how many years NI you need for a full state pension and how many you currently have. If you're planning to work until retirement age you can work out how many years of contributions you'll be making. If you're not going to have enough years you can see if you're able to pay voluntary contributions for any years you've missed and which you haven't received automatic NI credits for.

None of this is important right now though. What's most important is the divorce and especially severing joint finances. So focus on this.

Family don't have to fund your divorce entirely, you're going to get a job and by the looks of it have some UC too. Half is better than the "none" you thought you'd get. Ask them to fund the first few meetings with a solicitor though, if they want to help. It will get the ball rolling.

Apply for council tax reduction on the grounds of low income, this is a separate claim to UC and also separate to other discount I'm about to mention. As far as I know it's not backdated, so get onto it ASAP. Do your adult children live with you? If they do, you won't be able to claim 25% single-adult-occupancy discount.

As soon as he pays into the joint account so the overdraft is cleared, get it closed/frozen/you removed. This is absolutely vital. You don't need to live off the overdraft, you'll have UC as well as child maintenance. Keeping this joint account going is shooting yourself in the foot and helping destroy your future.

Use a food bank (school or GP can refer, as can multiple other official organisations/people so ask whoever you have available). Find where community pantry is for your area (cheap food). Take out a credit card in your own name. Borrow from family. Ask UC for an advanced payment. Ask jobcentre for a Crisis Loan (which you should easily get, with zero income). Ask your utility providers about specific schemes for people on a low income and get those. Change all your utility bills to quarterly billing to give yourself 3 months of zero payments, to give you a chance to get alternative finances set up, you can go back to direct debits later if you prefer it. Use your supermarket loyalty points to pay for your shopping. Do anything and everything other than relying on this joint account overdraft.

If for some reason you can't get the joint account closed/frozen/yourself removed - play smart. Ask him, since he's happy for you to solely use the joint account, to get himself removed from it. Just that. That won't stop him from being able to pay into it (for child maintenance or whatever else he's planning to pay in there, (you can just go along with that for now)). He can tell his bank to do a bank transfer into any account he likes. He doesn't need login details or password etc, only account number, name, and sort code. I say this in case he uses it as an argument for why he "can't" remove himself.

Agree/be non-committal whatever he says about direct debits/debts etc (nothing in writing!). Then, after the joint account is solely yours, tell him you're cancelling all the direct debits that aren't yours ie all those debts in his name etc. There's nothing he can do about it if he's not part of the account. Also you can tell your bank not to accept payments from his bank, if he's trying to put other money in there for you to pay his bills with etc and get child maintenance collected by CMS from his wages instead. But I don't think it'll come to this, banks must deal with divorcing couples all the time. I'm sure getting the account frozen, at least, will be easy enough.

Hairdyemistake · 10/03/2024 01:44

FYI if you do need to do this, cancelling direct debits is easy. You don't need any information on the companies taking the direct debits. All you need is to contact your bank, ask what direct debits you have attached to the account and tell them which ones to cancel. Nobody else has a say in this, it's purely the account holders decision. It's what you should do even if you cancel a direct debit with a company, incase of an "admin glitch"/ (shady behaviour) so they can't take any more payments.

Cryingemoji · 10/03/2024 19:04

@Hairdyemistake thank you so much for such a detailed reply.

I was able to have a look at my pension forecast online and fortunately I have no gaps (I guess due to claiming child benefit) and it says I need five more years contributions.

I do have one of my adult children living with me so I'm going to be unable to claim the council tax reduction.

OP posts:
Debtfreegoals · 10/03/2024 22:18

.

Hairdyemistake · 11/03/2024 20:16

I do have one of my adult children living with me so I'm going to be unable to claim the council tax reduction.

No.

You'll be unable to claim 25% discount for single adult occupancy. Because there is more than one adult living there. It is based on the number of adults in a property. They don't care who these adults are, their relationship to each other or their income.

Council tax reduction is something separate and for people on low income, which is you.

Your adult child's earnings are nothing to do with your income. This child is an adult and so is not your dependant. This means they aren't part of your household. They are their own household, regardless of them living with you.

All your benefits will be calculated based on your income only. You can and should claim council tax reduction.

Rosscameasdoody · 12/03/2024 06:45

Hairdyemistake · 11/03/2024 20:16

I do have one of my adult children living with me so I'm going to be unable to claim the council tax reduction.

No.

You'll be unable to claim 25% discount for single adult occupancy. Because there is more than one adult living there. It is based on the number of adults in a property. They don't care who these adults are, their relationship to each other or their income.

Council tax reduction is something separate and for people on low income, which is you.

Your adult child's earnings are nothing to do with your income. This child is an adult and so is not your dependant. This means they aren't part of your household. They are their own household, regardless of them living with you.

All your benefits will be calculated based on your income only. You can and should claim council tax reduction.

Your adult child's earnings are nothing to do with your income. This child is an adult and so is not your dependant. This means they aren't part of your household. They are their own household, regardless of them living with you.

This is not correct I’m afraid. Council tax reduction on the grounds of low income is means tested on all household income. An adult child who is earning will be classed as a non-dependant resident not liable for paying rent under a formal arrangement. So the person claiming any income based (means tested) benefits, including things like Housing Benefit, Universal Credit Housing Element and Council Tax Reduction, would likely see a reduction through rules on non-dependant deductions.

Cryingemoji · 12/03/2024 12:37

Thank you both.

I now have an appointment with a solicitor, I'm trying to draw up a list of questions if anyone has any input of things not to forget to ask.

Thank you.

OP posts:
Silvers11 · 13/03/2024 10:32

Cryingemoji · 12/03/2024 12:37

Thank you both.

I now have an appointment with a solicitor, I'm trying to draw up a list of questions if anyone has any input of things not to forget to ask.

Thank you.

Hope it goes well, and you get some helpful info for going forward OP

Cryingemoji · 13/03/2024 10:34

Silvers11 · 13/03/2024 10:32

Hope it goes well, and you get some helpful info for going forward OP

Thanks so much.

OP posts:
Hairdyemistake · 13/03/2024 16:18

rosscameasdoody ok that makes sense if they've changed it, because really if someone lives there they should be paying rent as a lodger. I guess they're looking at it that if you're not charging rent it's a way of depriving yourself.

OP if this adult child who lives with you isn't a high earner and you're effectively subsidising them, they should look into starting their own UC claim. Then they can properly pay their own way including chipping in for the rent/council tax/ utilities like they would in any other house-share. It's all very well supporting adult children if you can afford to, but if it's going to affect your benefits then they should really be there on the basis of either a house-mate (pays half of everything if it's just you two) or a lodger (rents the room from you so you're their LL and the rent you charge covers their usage of utilities etc too).

I'm glad you have a solicitor appointment finally. Divorces take a while so the sooner you start the sooner it'll be over and you can get to recovery from it and moving on with life. You're doing so well with dealing with all these practicalities at such an emotional time. If you can get an appointment with citizens advice bureau to check you're claiming all the benefits you can claim that'll be a massive help for you but if not and you're unsure, put in a claim anyway and if you're not eligible it'll be turned down.

Rosscameasdoody · 17/03/2024 22:39

Hairdyemistake · 13/03/2024 16:18

rosscameasdoody ok that makes sense if they've changed it, because really if someone lives there they should be paying rent as a lodger. I guess they're looking at it that if you're not charging rent it's a way of depriving yourself.

OP if this adult child who lives with you isn't a high earner and you're effectively subsidising them, they should look into starting their own UC claim. Then they can properly pay their own way including chipping in for the rent/council tax/ utilities like they would in any other house-share. It's all very well supporting adult children if you can afford to, but if it's going to affect your benefits then they should really be there on the basis of either a house-mate (pays half of everything if it's just you two) or a lodger (rents the room from you so you're their LL and the rent you charge covers their usage of utilities etc too).

I'm glad you have a solicitor appointment finally. Divorces take a while so the sooner you start the sooner it'll be over and you can get to recovery from it and moving on with life. You're doing so well with dealing with all these practicalities at such an emotional time. If you can get an appointment with citizens advice bureau to check you're claiming all the benefits you can claim that'll be a massive help for you but if not and you're unsure, put in a claim anyway and if you're not eligible it'll be turned down.

I don’t think you’re appreciating that it isn’t a matter of paying rent or lodgings. It’s household income that’s counted as a whole. If they paid rent to the OP this would be deducted from any benefits received.

fishingoutofthewater · 22/03/2024 20:04

Cryingemoji · 12/03/2024 12:37

Thank you both.

I now have an appointment with a solicitor, I'm trying to draw up a list of questions if anyone has any input of things not to forget to ask.

Thank you.

Hiya,

You asked for a list so here we go...

if you can find my previous note, it covers most of the things if I was going through this all again.

Your finances are a mess and it is going to be the first and biggest hurdle to get you out of this also for reasons lost on me, the thing men get most annoyed about.

Here is what I would do (and did)

  1. go to Martin Lewis and download his budget planner, go through it line by line and fill it in for your household expenses.

  2. Google "divorce form e" if this link doesn't work https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/form-e-financial-statement-for-a-financial-order-matrimonial-causes-act-1973-civil-partnership-act-2004-for-financial-relief-after-an-overseas

Download it and try and fill in as much information as you can for you and as much as you can for your husband. Filling out what you know about your husband will help because they tend to hide "forget" things.

  1. Get hold of as many bills, bank statements, pensions etc and photo copy or scan them before your husband gets wind of you sorting out the finances and they disappear. Based on what I am reading, he has been "doing the money stuff" and you have been letting him. I imagine if you asked questions, you were fobbed off or made to feel stupid. I expect that your aren't stupid but need a bit more self confidence. You can do this, he quite clearly does not know best and there is no way he is going to act in any way other than his best interest.

  2. Get comfortable fast with the fact that he is going to hate you the minute you stand up for yourself. It is not because you are a bad person, it is because you are demonstrating that you are not longer controllable. You are in for a fight, it's exhausting and devastating but if you don't you won't be protected. You are going to be tired and sad and want to quit but you have one shot at this and the legal system and society is skewed towards believing that women looking after themselves are women scorned.

  3. Get rid of the overdraft and close the account or at least ask the solicitor to advise how to protect yourself. You keep giving reasons why you can't on this thread. Sorry but you need to get it done even if it is a bit underhand and you can do it, it just won't be easy.

  4. Get as many figures together as you can. The more numbers the solicitor has, then better advice that they can give you. Also the more admin you can do for them and information that you can lay out on a platter, the more they can get done in the hours that you pay them.

If there was a way to DM on here, I'd say get in contact, I've done two for other people and mine. This is about to become your full time job but if you do it right, you will at least be safe. It's not about beating him or winning, it's about covering yourself and ensuring that you are not left in poverty in your 50s because you had his children. Good luck.

Financial statement for a financial order (Matrimonial Causes Act 1973 / Civil Partnership Act 2004) / for financial relief after an overseas divorce etc: Form E

(Part 3 of the Matrimonial and Family Proceedings Act 1984/Schedule 7 to the Civil Partnership Act 2004)

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/form-e-financial-statement-for-a-financial-order-matrimonial-causes-act-1973-civil-partnership-act-2004-for-financial-relief-after-an-overseas

LT1982 · 26/03/2024 19:42

Cryingemoji · 08/03/2024 20:58

Thanks so much for the replies.

@Hairdyemistake no I haven't seen a solicitor yet. The potential costs scare me, I don't know how I can expect my parents to fund it for me. But I know I'm not going to get far without one. He has a very healthy private pension which he has accrued during our marriage, that will need taking into account.

I've had a look at the 'entitled to' calculator and it looks like any UC would potentially half when I'm working, but I'd still be ultimately better off.

Check your house insurance. If it includes legal cover then there may be a helpline for free legal advice. Some union memberships/bank accounts offer it too

TheWorldisGoingMad · 07/04/2024 15:51

Otherstories2002 · 03/03/2024 11:09

This is not correct. Credit card debt accumulated during the marriage would be factored into a financial agreement.

Even if the accounts were NOT joint?

Otherstories2002 · 07/04/2024 16:21

TheWorldisGoingMad · 07/04/2024 15:51

Even if the accounts were NOT joint?

Absolutely.

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