Flats as an answer to housing crisis

[Turefu]

Hello.
British people like to live in their houses, flats are not popular. However, they're very common on the continent. Isn't it the way we should go? Building more flats instead of houses. There's only so much land available , we need to build up. That way more people will have their homes. People are relucant to live in flats, specially after lockdown, cladding scandal and Grenfell Tower tragedy. If security checks are increased, pehaps that's the way to go?
Your thoughts, please.

I would hate to live in a flat with children and I hated service charges when I could have changed a lightbulb for free. We would only need to build on a very small proportion of 'green' land to give people choice over where they live. I think flats are a part of the answer, but definitely not all.

What about re-purposing the thousands of buildings that are unoccupied and falling into disrepair? There should be such a penalty for long term unoccupied property that it disincentivises people to have buildings lying empty, or possibly even a compulsory purchase order after a set period of time.

There’s a town near to me where there are several such buildings and it’s so frustrating to see because it’s an area that could benefit from affordable housing.

I think flats work really well in Europe because they have more warmth and sunshine outside, so people typically spend a lot more of their time outside.

Here when you live in a flat, it's the same low level gloomy interior that you see most days, all day

On the continent they arent expected to dry clothes with osmosis or the power of prayer. so if more flats are to be built in the uk FFS BUILD THEM WITH LAUNDRY ROOMS in the building. I currently have clothes as well as bedsheets drying all over the flat because there is no other way of drying them No room for a tumble dryer in my too small kitchen in a one bedroom flat.
And there IS an assumption in the social housing model that if you dont have kids you dont need to wash wear and dry clothes.
Housing associations will often come out with comments like "its your lifestyle"

NO!!! the UK does not have homes especially flats unsuited to lifestyle. The flats here are unsuited to LIFE Thats why people in the UK dont like them!!!!!

We have the same issue in Canada. One thing I will say is a major difference in European cities is the small parks scattered throughout the city. Here is seems in a city you have quite a walk to find a bench to sit in a park to let kids roam or enjoy the outdoors.

If they build more apartments (and they should), then they have to make the neighbourhoods livable.

Lots of people already live in flats in Britain ! What make you think it's a novelty idea? Also new flats are constantly being built all over London.

@CherrySocks a lot of people live in them because they HAVE to

@JenniferBooth I'm not sure why you are telling me that. I grew up living in a flat. I have also lived in flats since.
The OP is suggesting flats as a novel housing idea for Britain.

I grew up in a flat in London and had my dcs in a flat. We live in a house now. In many ways a house is far less convenient - all the running up and down stairs (we have 5 floors, my previous flats were all on one level). And getting deliveries was easier in a flat - couriers would leave a parcel outside the flat door which was fairly secure as it wasn't visible from the street, and required a code to get past the main door. Now in our house I have to get parcels delivered to a post office or locker because it would get stolen if left on our doorstep.

In our house we don't have tumble dryer because they damage clothes and cost a lot to run, and we still dry washing indoors, because we don't get around to taking out laundry until the dcs are in bed and then it's too dark to hang outdoors.

In our flats we've always had some outdoor or garden space. But we tend to spend a lot of time out of our homes anyway, either outdoors or visiting places. I don't think it makes much difference being in a house or flat, some people like to stay in and others tend to go out.

Despite all that, I'm glad we have a house now. I love that it's our own space, and we could remodel the layout without seeking permission, and create the home that suits our needs and grow an investment that we could downsize from, once the dcs have left home and then have a lump sum to support their future. Being in a flat never felt quite like our own space (they were all owned but leasehold). Almost all new developments where I am in zone 2 London are flats anyway, not houses, so it seems to be already considered to be the solution to improve housing capacity.

I've lived mostly in flats. I live in a shoebox flat now. The only bad thing about this one is it has no outside space. It's got shared 'grounds' but it's no substitute: you'd have to get properly dressed because it's 'public'; you can't hang washing out; nowhere to grow a few plants except the windowsill.

Flats with a decent balcony or terrace are fine, though, even for children. A communal playground - and even allotments - can be brilliant but, in some places, those attract abuse.

They need to be designed with real-world living in mind. There's a lot of research about the value of individuality, 'human scale', and demarcated boundaries. Sticking a load of boxes on top of one another with identical corridors between them doesn't work.

This looks lovely! They really thought about how people use their homes.
https://www.mikhailriches.com/project/goldsmith-street/

I would hate a flat with kids.

No garden/outside..and nowadays kids cant run around or play outside in towns or parks without complaints or no ball/off the grass signs..

Can't get up flights of stairs with buggys

No storage so you have shoes/buggies/ coats strewn in a narrow tiny hallway.

Sounds..get so many complaints if babies cry/ kids run, are loud ect and for 24 hours you cant turn their volume off, flats generally are awful with noise, i use to hear my neighbour snore so i am pretty sure neighbours would hate young families.

They wouldn't work unless these points thought about, and i doubt any builder would put more money in to accomodate they just want profit.

I think flats work really well in Europe because they have more warmth and sunshine outside, so people typically spend a lot more of their time outside.

You're talking about southern Europe. Northern countries are on a par with weather in the UK. There's still loads of flats and apartment buildings though. They're built to a generally high standard and stringent safety rules.

Yeah I'd agree with that. Flats work when they're well designed. When they're poorly designed they're worse than poorly designed houses.

The flat I lived in as a child was great. Things that made it great was that it was built on two floors with an upstairs bathroom, the kitchen was down the corridor from the living space and it had a door. It had underfloor heating so we were all kind of heating each other and wall space wasn't taken up with radiators. It had a balcony. Outside there was a mix of flats and houses and the layout meant everywhere was in sight of lots of people. There were always eyes on. There was a massive green area away from the main road and separate to the car park. It had space where loads of washing lines were set up, again all overlooked, and separate space where you could sit and where kids could run around and play.

I lived in a newish build flat for years as an adult and it was .. difficult. Open plan so everything ended up smelling of cooking and no storage space with precious few walls to create your own. No balcony. No space for a separate dryer or for a dishwasher in the kitchen area. Tiny tiny bit of outdoor space that was surrounded by hedges which - because everything else was concrete - had multiple wasps nests in year after year. So sitting in that tiny bit of outdoor space was unpleasant. Nowhere for kids to play apart from the car park! The entire setup was very impractical.

Add to that the frankly insane legal fiction that is the UK leasehold system, which is just a licence to print money, and living in a flat can be an expensive and frustrating pita.

If we built proper apartment complexes that were well thought out in regard to how most people actually live, rather than blocks of faceless square spaces for 30 yo single men who spend most time out socialising and whose only possessions are a futon and a games console, and if owners had control over communal costs and expenditure apartment living could be really great. But, we don't.

FFS BUILD THEM WITH LAUNDRY ROOMS in the building.

No thanks. Who wants to spend time trudging to a laundry room in their own apartment building? I'd rather go to the laundrette when I need to (washing machine broke down)nand grab a coffee in the cafe next door while I'm waiting.

In my apartment the bathroom is big enough to accomodate a washing machine and dryer on top of it. Perfect.

Could never understand the British thing of having the washing machine in the kitchen.

I do think some cultures are more considerate and socially responsible and more amenable to restrictions on personal freedoms, which makes communal living spaces more bearable. Brits are just too selfish to share spaces equably.

A better idea would be to somehow make flat or house sharing more popular. It is crazy to have so many individuals requiring a flat all to themselves, when it could be more economical to share. Students do it. Why is it not more common in the rest of society?

Thumbs up for more flats. It's all down to architecture and good design.
If we ignore the planning constraints and the high cost of property for a moment which are the problem and the reason flats in this country end up as flammable stack of shoe boxes, an ideal flat for me will be this:
Low to medium-rise block
Contemporary design - not pastiche period style architecture !
Good quality finishes and all mod cons
Min 4 double bedrooms
High ceilings
Large windows to allow ample natural light
Fully openable windows!
Separate kitchen and dining space not all merged into one ridiculous m2.
External terrace large enough to dine on
Proper sound insulation between flats and rooms
Well designed amenities and common areas, green space.

These flats do exist on the continent and other parts of the world and can be affordable. In the UK the same spec is only offered to the top 1%!

Because people want to form their own family units @Changethetoner with or without children, or live alone. Neither is better. It's individual choice.

Sharing flats is something you do when venturing out into the world.

No way I'm sharing a kitchen and bathroom as an adult with strangers/flat mates.

Min 4 double bedrooms

You're talking penthouse here.

I agree other countries make use of flats better than we do. In the UK we just don't build flats well enough for them to be good. Where I live there are lots of new flats being built, but they are luxury types, not homes for regular people.
We need to build our flats bigger, decent size rooms, with more storage space, and decent sized balconies for outside space.
And have more flats with multiple bedrooms so that they are available to families - I'd happily stay in a flat with children having lived in flats most of my life.
Something I see a lot overseas is balconies that are enclosed with retractable covers, so you can basically use it as a conservatory in winter but be open in summer. This would be a significant benefit with the UK climate.

The buildings seem to often be in horrible concrete surroundings. Lots of greenery, trees and plants would make such a difference.

This is the main reason I'd hate to be in a flat. I love my garden and I'm in it a lot. From having coffee outside in the morning to planting things, putting a bird feeder up, letting the children play, entertaining. It's a different lifestyle and I think it plays a big part in mental well-being for many.

Does the freehold system mean that various aristocrats or the royals actually own all the land? If so, you need a revolution.

There have been quite a lot of studies done on tower blocks, if that’s what you mean, and only the young thrive in them. They are too alienating for long term living.

I like tenements and mansion blocks myself - they feel more spacious than terraced houses. I think you could possibly sell them as an alternative to terraces, if you had your own garden.

Because most people don’t want to live with random strangers beyond the adolescent self discovery phase.

Don’t be a loon.