Flats as an answer to housing crisis

[Turefu]

Hello.
British people like to live in their houses, flats are not popular. However, they're very common on the continent. Isn't it the way we should go? Building more flats instead of houses. There's only so much land available , we need to build up. That way more people will have their homes. People are relucant to live in flats, specially after lockdown, cladding scandal and Grenfell Tower tragedy. If security checks are increased, pehaps that's the way to go?
Your thoughts, please.

No she isn’t. I used to live in tenements in Scotland, and had lots of friends who did too. Four double bedrooms wasn’t that unusual at all.

I had intended to stay living in a flat, which suited me perfectly - balcony, sufficient room just for me, had extended lease so that wasn't a problem. Then lockdown hit and sitting in the sunshine was reserved for those privileged enough to have a house and a garden (my balcony was north facing so got no direct sunlight) - you better believe I sold up quick sharp and bought a house to legally protect that privilege for myself.

Those saying flats are the perfect solution - did you spend lockdown in one?

I’ve lived in flat’s but not since having children. The noise issue and lack of outside space is a deal breaker for me. There’s no way I would want to be in a flat with children. They do make noise just being kids and I would
find it too stressful to be worrying about disturbing neighbours all the time. I also loathe other people’s noise.

I grew up in a flat, it was fine. I live the detached dream now but can totally see myself back in a flat when kids are grown. We shared a fab drying room with the neighbour on our landing. The external wall was made up of concrete blocks that had 4 inch openings to outside, with chicken wire to stop the pigeons. Clothes would dry even in winter and we stored bikes etc. I’d like to see practical flats like they used to build make a come back.

Ime flats work well under the following conditions:

All owner occupiers who have an incentive to look after their own & communal spaces

Freehold

Excellent noise insulation/thick walls/floors/ceilings

Not more than 5 floors

Storage space on the ground floor for bikes & prams

Parking

Green spaces & shops nearby

High ceilings

Lots of big windows

Laundry- space for a tumble dryer (not in an open plan kitchen/living room) and outside space like a balcony, a pulley from the ceiling or a communal laundry in the basement

Space for all the different recycling bins

I only lived in flats when I lived in the UK, no issue with laundry, noise, space etc.

We now live in a house, I much prefer living in a flat.

To the poster who stated europe has warmer weather, it doesn’t, Germany, Poland, Austria, Sweden etc all exist and a large proportion of residents live in flats.

I’ve lived in an apartment in a French city for 16 years now. Although it has got too small for us we are hanging on because we love it! it’s an old style apartment so very high ceilings and big rooms. The building, and most in our city, is 6 stories high. There is a lift. Each flat also has its own cellar and loft space, secure and lockable, so storage isn’t an issue. We also have a secure room to store bikes. All external / communal garden areas are maintained by the coropriete (residents association) and we pay €50 pm for this, and it includes a gardien (caretaker) who does all the cleaning, maintence, takes the bins out (e have a sisteroom for buns and recycling). We have access to an enclosed outdoor area. Neighbours noise can be an issue but not often: we are ground floor so not bothering anyone. We have a tiny garden but tbh don’t miss it- there’s a massive park round the corner plus many smaller playgrounds within 10 min walk.

i listened to a podcast interview with John Burn Murdoch about how some countries really don’t like living in flats - and they are also the ones with the most acute housing crises, in Europe that’s the UK and Ireland 🤷‍♀️

I'm in Australia where drying outside is normally do-able. Yet every home, every flat, has a laundry room.
It's just the norm. Nobody has a washing machine or a dryer in their kitchen - never. These things have their own room AND we dry outside when it's sunny. I honestly don't understand the UK habit of building homes without laundry rooms.

We need more secure tenancies. OP One big difference is that in the UK you are expected to buy a house. Renting is more common on the continent.

Buying a flat means you have service charges / ground rent etc. You have no control over that and getting a mortgage can be tricky.

Strangely most of my adult life I have lived on one floor and I prefer it.

So what we need is.

Flats with secure tenancies, with adequate sound proofing.

@JenniferBooth my friend is in a flat with a laundry room and better still it is free to use. It was coin operated when he moved in.

In my group the ones who have kids (mostly) live in houses and the ones without live in flats. So it's not a new phenomenon. We lived in flats until we had DC. I would love to live in a flat again to be honest - I do sometimes think maybe when the DC are teenagers we could move closer to the city centre again but our flats just aren't designed for families to live in. There seems to be this craze to have as few rooms as possible and 'open' living space when in reality people want to cook in one area, wash and dry clothes somewhere in another, work in another etc

Flats need to be common hold not leasehold . Too many scare factors with the current tenure . Flats are great for singles / couples but not great for pets and children .

As others have said we don't have enough good weather here to make them light / airy and encourage flat people to spend time in parks etc .

The Leasehold and Freehold Reform Bill was announced in The Kings Speech in 2023 and introduced to the House of Commons in the following November to:

• Make it cheaper and easier to extend your lease or buy the freehold for existing leaseholders in houses and flats.
• Increase the standard lease extension term from 90 years to 990 years for houses and flats, with ground rent reduced to £0.
• Remove the requirement for new leaseholders to have owned their house or flat for two years before they can benefit from these changes.

(and more) https://hoa.org.uk/advice/guides-for-homeowners/for-owners/leasehold-reform

The big issue with flats is leasehold, which is a peculiarly British thing and a deterrent for buyers.

I agree with common hold. Similar structure is common where I am from. The owners meet up to discuss works needed etc. Leashold is weird to me (ESPECIALLY on houses)

Also, re common areas care. It's doable. Quite common thing there is to have a rota per floor for mopping and usting common hallway. 1 week flat 1, next week flat 2, and so on. And if you don't pitch in, you get bitched at and about. Rightfully.

I've lived most of my adult life in flats, from student flat-shares to first home with DH and then with our DDs as they've grown. The latter part of that was mostly spent overseas and, as has been pointed out already, the flats (always called apartments) were spacious and practical, with lifts, balconies/terraces and access to many small parks close by. I found them ideally suited to bringing up small children, having more floor space than most UK homes but all on one level is safer and makes supervision much easier. We bought a large flat on return to UK and love it... the only thing I don't love is the pitying look and 'head tilt' that certain family and friends give about it. We don't have a lift or balcony now but DC are way past buggy stage and can go out to local parks and friends. If you can find a decent flat (granted it's much harder in this country) then you get so much more for your money. We looked at and discounted "family homes" with significantly less floor space. Luckily we dont have the leasehold issue in Scotland. We have factors (building management company) who coordinate maintenance etc for a reasonable fee which is fine.

Do you live in a shared house?
I'm childless and recently found myself single in my mid 40s but do not want to share a space with a stranger again. I did that for a decade, it was a different stage of my life, I now need my own space, some control over my own environment, the ability for my friends and family to visit, and my pets (which both sharing and flats would make very difficult)

If they are well built and designed people will want to live in them. I think plenty of over 55s would move into to retirement flats if they weren’t such a rip off. Anything lease hold is a rip off in the uk.
An easy way to help the housing crisis is to penalise people who have more than one house. If the extra house is not let on a reasonable long term let then it’s 10 times council tax on that house and triple on the main dwelling. No business rates get out or it’s a holiday let.
That would sort the housing crisis in quite a few areas

Using all the empty/abandoned and second homes as well as empty buildings and offices would be a start instead of building more

We live in Germany in a massive maisonette that used to be office space. Good-sized rooms for all our three children. I have a small study off our bedroom ('small' meaning you could use it easily as a single bedroom). Huge kitchen that's literally the centre of the home, massive living space upstairs with a second bathroom that doubles as our utility (washing machine in there)/guest shower room and a terrace big enough for us all to sit on at once plus lots of planters. It's expensive-ish because it's big, but cheap per square metre, partly because of where we live (semi-rural) - it's definitely not a 'luxury' home.

Of course there are crappy flats here too, but you do get more of the imaginative repurposing of space of the kind that we live in. There's increasing concern about the environmental impact of building detached homes.

Give me a European style flat and I will be there! When I retire I want to move into a city centre flat, but most of the ones near me are crappy shoeboxes.

I love mine mostly

Good points
Private garden (I'm ground floor)
Well insulated and no noise

Bad points
Management company seem to just charge WTF they want
Not allowed to dry washing outside
If I could change those above 2 points it would be perfect

Some people like flats. They can be appealing if the communal areas are well cared for. They also generally have lower heating bills. I'd be happy to rent one if it came to it, but I'd be put off buying one (rightly or wrongly) because of the leasehold.

DH grew up in a Victorian tenement and loved it. It was all families then though, whereas now it would be students/young professionals coming and going.

I absolutely hated the place though, the noise, the lack of air and light coming in. Zero privacy. His friends mum had a beautiful upstairs flat with huge windows in every room and built in storage, great proportions.

The reality is most the flats we build here are crap. The ones near me have tiny windows and are overrun by cars as there’s not enough parking. The ones I’ve been in are all dark inside. They aren’t designed for long term living at all.

In our area (London) every available scrap of land is being developed into flat developments, and houses converted into flats.

There seems to be very very few new houses being built here. In big cities at least the shift towards flats has been going on for a long time, although they like to refer to them as apartments to try to make them sound better than their council property kin.

Some of the developments are well thought out with roof terraces and gardens, safe gates communal play areas and additional facilities like gyms etc on site.

Others are concrete hell holes.

The freeholders are generally either the developer that built the block or an investment fund of some type, often pension funds.