Flats as an answer to housing crisis

[Turefu]

Hello.
British people like to live in their houses, flats are not popular. However, they're very common on the continent. Isn't it the way we should go? Building more flats instead of houses. There's only so much land available , we need to build up. That way more people will have their homes. People are relucant to live in flats, specially after lockdown, cladding scandal and Grenfell Tower tragedy. If security checks are increased, pehaps that's the way to go?
Your thoughts, please.

Neighbours would be my issue.

I don't know what it's like on the continent, but here, it seems people have no sense of their own noise.
I live in a typical social housing semi detached property.
It's made so cheaply and poorly that I can hear them pretty much 24/7. When they get up, let the dog out, put the kettle on, put the telly on, have a row, yell at their kids etc.

Plus, if they built flats in this country, they'd build them as 'affordable' as possible to maximise profits and then sell them to people with 'portfolios' who would fill the flats with people who can pay the most possible in rent.

You'd need tighter building controls and regulations with emphasis on noise minimising.
You'd need nationally controlled rents to stop greedy LL Pricing people out.
You'd need referencing from previous landlords who could tell prospective new landlords if there were noise issues or mess etc.
You'd need more protections for tenants that stop no fault evictions completely.

The housing situation and hone selling and buying and mortgages and renting laws etc all need looking at and changing imo. Society wide change.

Plus plus - I read somewhere that only about 5% of land in the UK is built on. So I'm sure the government could find places for new towns if they had the desire to build them, but of course, that'd lead to NIMBYism

I think more flats with accessible access and lifts would be a good idea. I'm in my 70s and have downsized to a spacious first-floor flat with river views and love it but no lifts so probably have to move again. The service charge is worth it - fire safety, grounds maintenance, communal areas and window cleaning, bin store etc. There should be more built for people who want to downsize and limited to owner/occupiers so they're not snapped up by investors!

Tumble dryers dont harm clothes and Which has researched and found them the most economical way of drying clothes.

Sitting here in my flat wondering what you are talking about - flats are very common in the UK

Interesting answers.
Flats are not perfect solution, there’s no such thing. But they are a good option. If there’s no much land available , building up makes sense. There’re complaints here: noises from neighbours, not being able to dry clothes, spending a lockdown in one is not a joy,
How many lockdowns we had in our lifetime? One and very likely only. Not sure how the unprecedented event can determine not building more flats?
“I would hate to live in one”. We not always have what we want, very often we have to settle for what is available.
If social housing is so bad, what is worse : staying in expensive private rental or have social flat?
Weather in this country is unsuitable for flats. Nonsense. They’re countries in Central and Northern Europe , with much more extreme weather the here, where most people live in flats. Blocks often have community facility rooms , like laundries .
Noisy neighbours can be an issue in houses too. If someone wants to make sure will have a quiet space , with nice private garden, should buy a detached home.

Because it would eat into the profits for the developers

Yes, students do it, but they know it's only temporary, so will put up with sharing with awful/dirty/lazy people for a short time.

My son shared in three different Uni flats over 3 years. The state of the communal areas was enough to make you puke. Rancid/mouldy food just abandoned on worktops, table and the floor. Filthy toilets/showers. He got himself his own small fridge, kettle and a microwave so he could do most of his food/drink prep in his own flat!

When he left and started looking for flats in his new town where he got his first proper job, he was adamant he was never going to share again!

I don't know if it's a UK thing, but we do seem to have a problem with far too many people being little better than animals when it comes to behaviour, responsibility and hygiene etc!

If social housing is so bad, what is worse : staying in expensive private rental or have social flat

You badly need to do some reading and research.

How many lockdowns we had in our lifetime? One and very likely only

I will give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you arent trying to gaslight and have probably moved to this country recently
We had THREE lockdowns THREE The Spring 2020 one, the November 2020 one and the Christmas/Winter into 2021 one which lasted until April 2021.

Flats are fine for many people. The majority of households in the UK have no children . We just need better quality homes. Most of the disadvantages are due to the size, design and quality of the flats.

the majority of households in the UK have no children

yes i guess thats why the politicians are always talking about hard working singles and hard working couples. 🙄

I agree OP. But proper well planned, spacious flats with laundry facilities, lifts, parking and green spaces etc. Far too many flats here are dingy concrete towers or poorly done conversions.
I used to live right next to a lovely little complex of low rise flats with bike sheds, parking, bin sheds, the ground floor flats had tiny gardens and the development was between a playing field and small park. I'd happily have lived there if I didn't have 3 kids.

Noisy neighbours can be an issue in houses too. If someone wants to make sure will have a quiet space , with nice private garden, should buy a detached home.

So simple. Problem solved.

Why hasn't everyone else just thought of this?

Housing shortage? Noisy neighbours?
Just buy a detached house.

OP so clever, much problems solved.

Sure. Because people without kids have no interest in having outside spaces or owning pets.

I think the answer is taller houses, we have a townhouse, 3 floors, but why not 4 ... put the garage and a utility room in the basement. I like my admittedly tiny but still private garden and private parking spaces are a must

I have French, German and Spanish friends in the UK - they all prefer houses. It's a fallacy that people like apartment living, they do it due to cost

Oh. That's why there's all these apartment buildings in European cities like Kiruna or Tromso. Dear Lord, let it make sense.

I live in the south west, last time I went to Plymouth I noticed an old department store had been converted into student accommodation. Probably lots of buildings like that could be used.

Closer to home we used to have a little parade of half a dozen shops, lots of building in the last few years and a big supermarket has seen the shops close one by one. They are all now ground floor flats with the upstairs accommodation where shopkeepers lived are now also self contained flats. They are good sized two bedroom flats.

Small steps but if replicated across the country it must help.

I live in a flat now with my three children and I absolutely hate it! I wouldn’t promote this idea tbh, and the government are already doing it where I live btw! Squeezing us in like sardines.

The flats in UK are generally bit smaler in my experience than what many form continent are used to. My mum's 2bed is 70sqm and that's not something special, skmple commie build. I encountered similarly sized spacious (not bank breaking!) flat with actual 2 double berooms only once and was made up as heck.

In my old city the council moved everyone out of two blocks of flats, I think they were 12 storey with 4 flats per floor so nearly 100 flats. They put a manager in the ground floor flat, made a community room for everyone to use in the other ground floor flat and they let them to over 60s (or maybe 65s) They had adaptations to make them user friendly as people got older, wet rooms/grab rails that sort of thing. They were really popular and nearly 100 council houses were made available for families.

I don't know if there was a laundry room.

I wouldn’t mind if you were allowed pets (many leases don’t allow it) and if there was some storage. Shared a flat with someone 10 years ago, new build, 2 bed. Apart from the kitchen cupboards there was no storage at all, nowhere to keep the hoover/sweeping brush/mop and bucket. If you had kids and had a pram, it would have had to be in a corner of the bedroom/bathroom/kitchen. It always looked cluttered as there just wasn’t any space.

There was a door off the hall that looked like a cupboard but it was about 5 inches deep and housed the fuse box. Pointless. It was also open plan so no way of escaping everything smelling of cooking as the kitchen/dining room/living room was just one room. Only space for 1 car too, very difficult if you had visitors as all the roads were permit parking and you weren’t allowed to even block your own garage (cars had to be in garages at all times).

Had no outdoor space at all so had to tumble dry everything even in summer or have the whole living space taken up by towels and clothes draped over clothes horses. Thankfully, our LL paid the service charge and all you got for that was they came and hoovered the communal hallway and stairs 3/4 times a year (2 blocks of 4 flats so not exactly a big job).

Because it is fucking awful and most people who do it are glad to see the end of it.

I do agree with you, but....

Service charges
Leaseholds
Noisy neighbours (just look at the number of threads about the upstairs elephants)
Parking issues
Lack of private gardens
Pets issue

@GrumpyPanda alright no need to live upto your username. I just googled -

the average size of a flat in UK is 43sqm
the average size of a flat in Norway is 65sqm

Which means the average flat in Norway is 51% bigger than in UK...