Mother Hiding Cash

[ZekeZeke]

I'm one of 7 siblings, father is deceased.
My mother (narcissist) has fallen out with each of us at different times over the years.

My youngest sibling 40 (married, works and has a 2 year old) never left home. Her and her DH/DS live with mother.

It's understood and known that she will inherit the house. It's in the will (I've not seen will)
However, my mother purposely doesn't lodge her pension into her bank, she collects it in cash and keeps it at home. She has a separate pension paid into her bank.
My sister pays all the bills.

The reason she is keeping cash is because she doesn't want everyone to know how much she has and also so it won't be shared among us, her children.

There is no point telling her the dangers of keeping cash as she will hasn't admitted she does this.

My question, when she dies how can we prove there was a pile of cash?

You seem so certain there's a big wad of cash hidden, but if mum is cashing her pension check and dsis is paying bills with the cash, odds are the vast majority of it is being spent on day to day things and there's no big cache of cash sitting around.

Your jealousy of your sister is palpable. I would work on that.

Exactly.
It's approximately €1,200 per month.
She doesn't drink smoke gamble or go out.
I see her weekly. We are on good terms. My sisters and I visit her weekly. She told us the solicitor advised her to leave something to our brother in her will, otherwise they could contest it. I think that got her thinking and she started hiding her cash/not lodging it. Example she doesn't collect her pension weekly, she let's it build up and collects it every 3 months.

I feel for my youngest sister as my mother owns the home if my sister speaks out of turn or doesn't do things her way she could tell her to just leave. Funnily, this sister has told me (privately) that she won't be caring for mother in her old age. My mother constantly talks about never going into one of those places yet she doesn't realise my sister, the inheritor will have her in a nursing home when things get tough.

What does your mother intend to happen to the cash when she dies? Has she said?

Leave them to it.
Your sister pays the bills which your mother would otherwise fund from her pension so they likely see it as a "repayment" sort of thing.

Yes your sister lives there "free" but as you've said your mother could boot her out without a penny if they fall out so it's also a gamble - your mother doesn't sound like an easy person to get along with.

The only thing that occurred to me about the cash is that if she lives long enough one day it might not be legal tender. That was part of the plot of the book "Capital".

€1,200 pm isn’t a prince’s ransom

food would be at least €200 or €300
and presumably she buys clothes and runs a car? Then factor in presents for people, mobile phone etc let’s call it €700 pm generously….
(That’s assuming your sister pays all bills which is ridiculous if true)

I make that about €8,400 per annum being “hidden” so it’s maybe €1,200 per year max you think you are being diddled out of…

This is not the giant lottery win you seem to think it is.

given how dysfunctional it all sounds I wouldn’t be surprised if you went around there and she randomly handed you or another sibling a duffle bag with €50K in 2 years time…

i had a nutter grand aunt like this. She promised loads of random stuff to my cousin who cleaned for her for years (Waterford crystal, antiques and jewellery). I went round one day as I was in Ireland and it was rude not to visit. I brought her a cake and randomly she insisted on giving me a bag with about €15k of jewellery 🤨🧐
I told my aunt and basically said “she's nuts 🤷🏻‍♀️ what the hell do I do with this?”
So we went for dinner with my cousins and my bag of jewels and they both said well she’s poisonous but fair’s fair and it’s yours now. I said asked if they wanted to pick a piece (But not tell nutty grand aunt) which they seemed quite happy with As they are nice / normal.

point being your mother sounds unhinged so this will and hidden money can change with the wind.
stop wasting energy on it.

You keep describing her as a 'nutter', does that mean she wasn't of sound mind when she did this? Cos I'd have thought you couldn't just take it.

My grandmother offered loads of us cash when she was in the grips of dementia, we just didn't take it

I said at the vwey beginning. She has 2 incomes.
One goes into her bank account and the second, her pension she puts in a box.

This is your mothers money.
This is your mothers house.
It is none of your business what she does with either while she is alive has capacity.
If at some future point you think she is being abused in some way then report it to the appropriate authority.
Since she has made a will, hopefully her wishes will be carried out.
You need to respect her wishes and her life choices.

I never said she was being abused.
I always said house goes to youngest, fine with that.
Her money, her will I 100% agree.
What I'm not fine with is her will saying divide the rest of her estate (excluding house) by 7 when the majority of her estate is hidden in a box, by her being vindictive.

Thank you all for your responses. I will bow out now

But the money in the box IS part of her estate.

Just because it's not physically in a bank account doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Loads of people have cash assets, they just get added to the total and divided equally as stated in the will. They don't get excluded unless someone has physically hidden them so well that they can no longer be found (?) or they've been spent and therefore no longer exist.

Who pays out any funds in cash? Wouldn’t a bank, annual statement for taxation purposes etc be available?
I don’t know of any company who would disperse monthly sums in cold hard currency, and certainly not 2-3 months worth awaiting pick up.

Cash counts as part of estates, but I think the difficulty is tracing it. Banks can say yes, Jane Jones withdrew £300 a week between these dates, but they won't be able to say where it went after that. Whether it was dissipated or not.

Her contents insurance may only cover cash held in the house up to a certain amount. If she gets burgled she may lose the lot.

It doesn't have to be fair. You are not owed "fair". You are not owed anything.

Accept whatever your mother leaves you with good grace. Live your life without comparison to others. Keep your nose out of whatever may or may not have been left to others. Stop being resentful and grabby before your mother has even died.

Unless you don't like being happy and contented? In which case crack on with your jealousy of your sister, which will destroy your relationship as well as making you miserable.

A friend of mine was due to receive 50% of her mum's cash on death. When she died she found out that the sister who live with the mum had persuaded her mum to open a joint bank account with her some years before her death to 'make paying bills easier'. There was nothing left to inherit..

I have every sympathy for you as I also have a narc mother who is wierd with inheritance and money. They do it to hurt and control you. Its not worth the headsoace. Just pretend she's already dead and completely cut off from her psychologically. Let her do whatever shitty thing she wants but keep yourself completely separate and go forward surrounding yourself by positive loving people. Dont bother going to her funeral.
People who haven't lived thru narc abuse won't understand or give you good advice on here.

I mean I totally understand why you are focusing on it. Its so painful and it makes you so angry when you know your mother is planning ways to hurt you even in death. Like she won't even bee here to benefit in any way but she still wants to make sure she has the upper hand and she still wants to make sure you suffer. That is horrible and I understand. But by thinking about how to deal with it all you do is give her more power. No its not fair and yes shes a fkn awful person.. but the money won't make you feel less hurt or less aggrieved or like you have justice... because the things thats hurting you is that she would actually even do this in the first place.
My own mother has behaved appallingly regarding money in the wake of my dads death.. so much so it doesnt even benefit her its just purely to make sure that I do not benefit. In fact the things shes done set her back financially.. so its literally just out of spite and wanting to control the situation. I know it is so psychologically hard to deal with.

What I'm not fine with is her will saying divide the rest of her estate (excluding house) by 7 when the majority of her estate is hidden in a box, by her being vindictive.

You are the vindictive one. For whatever reason she wants the majority of her estate to go to the youngest child, who lives with her. She won't put this in the will because I've no doubt she knows you and how vindictive you are, she knows you will contest the will (as you have alluded to in this thread) if you don't think it's fair, rather than respecting your mother's wishes about how her estate is distributed. So she's hiding cash in the house to ensure the person she wants to inherit it is the one who does inherit it. That's not vindictive, that's a practical way of ensuring her wishes are fulfilled.

"My mother, the narcissist..."
The apple didn't fall far from the tree, did it, OP. You don't care about your not-even-deceased-yet mother's wishes, you only care about what you want and have the solid belief that your opinion is automatically the correct course of action. So arrogant.

@ZekeZeke you should post this on the 'but we took you to stately homes' thread. You will get a lot of advice and support there from people going thru similar who understand x

Do you understand that nobody can be forced to be a carer against their will? Your brother can and likely will do whatever he wants to do, as can you. You can't insist he becomes her carer. Your mother can't insist anyone becomes her carer. All she can do is to accept or decline any help offered by either the Local Authority or friends/family.

You will sober up when you realise that just because your mother is older than you doesn't automatically mean, you won't die before her. Which means you ought to focus on what is yours and what you will be leaving to your loved ones instead of counting other people's money.

She's not dead yet so no inheritance exists. It's just her money.

Which she can bank, keep in cash, give away, spend on that cat shit coffee, bury in the garden or shove up her arse if she wants to.

When she dies, then you can chase the cash if you want to. Right now it's hers to do with as she pleases. For all you know, she's passing it over to your sister every month and there'll be no cash when she dies and no way of proving anything.

Best thing to do is accept it's her money, her home and her choice and don't see it as something that ought to belong to you.

Not my problem .