Finances with husband - does this seem fair/right?

[AnonyHB]

Hi all,

Not sure who to ask about this and don’t feel comfortable asking friends as don’t want them to know about the situation.

In short, my husband and I are both high earners but he has been a high earner since graduating 17 years ago. He was then gifted half the family business about ten years ago so as well as being high earner (£120k plus) he also puts car, mobile phone etc through business and has access to extra money if he ever needs or wants to take out more. He works 3 days per week.

I earn about £40k less than him. To do this I work full time and then top up income through self employed work which fluctuates.

He bought our house 10 years ago. At that point we had been together approx 2 years but weren’t married. I was a student and not earning. House has always been in his name since. He paid mortgage and council tax, I paid everything else (bills, food, dogs, cleaner etc). We got married 5 years ago and now have a child. Nursery bill split equally between us at the moment.

He has paid for work to be done to house although I’ve also contributed (approx £50k I’ve given) despite never been named on house.

He is in a fortunate position that he has paid off the mortgage now, having decided he didn’t like the way the markets were going with interest rates. Meanwhile, my bills have accumulated and increased year on year. At this point he has no outgoings for household other than council tax and half nursery fees. I pay everything else, plus half nursery fees, to the tune of approximately £1800 per month. I also have obvious additional costs like my car, phone etc.

I can’t figure out if this is OK - that for the rest of our lives I continue to pay for everything on my own because he has paid the mortgage off. I feel it’s not right but can’t quite articulate the problem because in theory he could have chosen not to pay off mortgage and would then still have a monthly outgoing which, with council tax, would probably be similar in £ to mine.

Would appreciate opinions. I would love to get independent advice but husband not interested and I’ve told him I feel a bit weird about our financial situation but he ignores me.

I find married couples with shared children who do not share finances strange. You both own the house as married. All our income goes into one joint account, all bills, food, petrol, childcare, clothes for child etc come out join account. We both get the same "fun money" each into our personal which is ours to save/spend. Anything big we discuss and buy from joint account.

Yeah what Anothermanicmumday1 said really, I can’t get my head around this - but we have shared all finances since we had kids. Do you have any joint accounts?

@Anothermanicmumday1 I agree tbh. We looked at me going on deeds for house but I’d need to pay stamp duty.

I have tried telling him I think the arrangement we have - splitting finances this way - doesn’t work anymore now we have kids and are married etc. but he just disengages. He is happy with the situation. It made sense when we were younger and he was only one who earned but things are different now and I just feel weird about it all. If it was up to him I would have always paid half mortgage despite earning significantly less - it doesn’t occur to him or he doesn’t care what is actually fair.

I should add this isn’t the only issue. He spend most of his time running. We send our daughter to nursery on the days he doesn’t work so he can play about trying his hand at starting other little businesses based on hobbies and/or going out running. He rarely walks our dogs, does minimal
house work, doesn’t cook, has yet to organise or buy a single thing for our child, doesn’t do food shop etc etc. he is just selfish really so I shouldn’t be surprised it’s the same with finances I guess.

@DistrictCommissioner we have never had joint account. I was fine with this - in fact didn’t see any point in it - before we had kids. But then we had a child and he paid off mortgage and now I feel differently,

Now he has no mortgage he is spending the spare money buying rental properties with his mates. He hasn’t ever suggested he takes on any other costs despite knowing they’re increasing and I’m working more and more hours to cover them.

I was about to ask what he does with all his money every month. He's buying rental properties with his mates!?

@northernlola yep

Why can't you just say no?

Combine all the household expenses for the month. If he earns £120k and you own £80k then he pays 60% of that each month and you pay 40%.

What would he do if you just flat out refused to pay more than 40%? You're married, the rental properties and house will likely be joint assets if you split anyway.

@Rtmhwales i guess that is an option but suppose I’ve been wanting to check im not being unreasonable and also explore options for persuading him rather than just going with a ultimatum, but I know this may end up being my only option! It’s a bit trickier in that everything is currently in my name (direct debits I mean) so as well a saying no I would need to follow through with cancelling all DDs etc. not a major issue I know but will come across as very aggressive to him when I’ve ‘happily’ (but not really!) paid for these the whole time.

he also says it’s complicated because he paid for house and extension work etc and is being punished for paying this off because if he still has the monthly outgoing I wouldn’t be asking for change. To some extent this is true as it seemed a fairer division of funds when he was paying mortgage but I also didn’t realise he would be able to just pay this off when it suited him and then spend the rest of his life spending that money on his own pursuits and interests while I continue paying for all household bills (other than council tax) on my own forever more…

I think your husband is right in that you penalises him for paying off the mortgage. I made a detailed plan to pay our mortgage and after I saved enough, I paid off my share. My husband chose not to. So for about a year, my share of bill was lower than his as I no longer pay my mortgage share.
By the way, we calculated our bills (childcare, food, councill tax, petrol, family days out, insurances, mortgage - when we still had one, etc) as one, then based on the ratio of our earning, we paid our share. The left over money is individually kept and spent as we wish.
The only problem you have is that you don't calculate all bills as one item and then split the bill based on the ratio of earnings. The fair way to do this is to calculate the bills including mortgage, theh split it based on the ratio of earning. Your husband contributes based on his split minus mortgage and you pay your full split.
FYI, when there is an increase in our bill or salary, we always recalculate everything and update our bills split. A 10 min works that saves us from financial resentment.

I believe if you are married, there is no SD to pat if he transfers half the house to you
. It is a spousal transfer.

No I don't think this arrangement is fair. Finances should be joint, and split fairly. You are married.

He paid off his asset and now you basically pay his part of the joint monthly costs- that’s why it’s unfair!

Just get divorced and go for all you can. He sounds like a selfish ducker who doesn't love you the way a husband should. It almost sounds like you've been used to have his child but that's it really. It doesn't sound like an equal loving relationship in any way what so ever.

This is no partnership!

In your shoes, I'd gather all financial documentation and see a family solicitor to get an idea what you might be awarded if you were to divorce.

This sounds grossly unfair to me. We run our marriage with a 'what's mine is yours' approach. I'd be wanting to equal things up.

The sad thing is he clearly sees you having to work hard to manage financially and he doesn't want to help you.
So I really don't think he'll suddenly change his view.
You might need a different tack ...so for example your dh works 3 days a week so your dd only needs to be in nursery those days , you pay half nursery fees so I'd be paying 1.5 days. Tell him your not or cannot afford to pay for nursery days when he is not at work...if he wants her in nursery on those days his responsibility.
Then start looking at other things you pay for that you can cut ..sky or Netflix?...do you both have a car and do you pay both lots of tax and insurance...if you do, I'd be saying sorry I can only afford for us to run one car.
Turn heating off, minmial hot water..enough for you and dd to wash .
Basically I think you'll have to make his life uncomfortable and less cushy and point out it's because you cannot afford to continue providing the standard of living he currently has.
Failing that ltb...I rarely say that but financially the house,his half of the business,the rental properties etc his pension etc all assets.
You be ok

Too quick to call for a divorce? As long as things can be discussed and changes are made to address the issues, conflict can be resolved. No one is perfect after all.

Are you married @Madamecastafiore ? 100% happy with your DH without nothing to complaints?

The question here is what is marriage bringing Marmut, because this does not sound like a partnership at all.
I agree with you that the first step is to sit down and try to sort this out, because no way is the situation fair. The problem is that it is not fair on multiple levels, and if the OP’s DH cannot see this, then I would judge him. Yes, he has paid off the mortgage but he has been able to do that because the OP has paid everything else. He can go out running because the OP is doing everything else in the house.
So the husband here needs to become much more of a partner because this is far beyond being a bit unhappy with one’s husband, it’s deeply unfair.

I would have a very serious conversation (and by that I mean make him see how serious you are) about where things are at in your marriage. He technically may be correct in what he's saying but this is your marriage and not a business or a housemate situation. I couldn't live with someone who knew what I was having to do to sustain that life and not help if I was able to. How you can treat someone you profess to love that way I don't know. He needs to stop seeing your marriage as a long line of transactions and start seeing you as a family. If he can't, I'd be done.

We just share everything, his money my money makes no difference. DH would never see me worse off than him and vice versa.

I’m not sure about this, but agree with the advice about cutting down and sercuring your own financial position. Bills etc need to be shared proportionally. He puts in 60% and you put in 40% into an account all shared costs get paid out of. So all child and household costs. Does he think you owe him money for paying off the mortgage? It sounds very transactional, are you happy because tbh I wouldn’t feel like I was part of a team like this.

It's very sad that your husband is not engaging in family life. No wonder your looking at your marriage.

Maybe for a start focus on rebalancing time. When do you get time for your hobbies and career progression?

You can register a beneficial interest in your property without SDLT. But presumably you are the sole beneficiary in his will and for life insurance purposes?

You are married to someone who seems to have essentially 'retired' in his 30s (?) without apparently any joint planning or discussion. That must feel very weird. I have a friend in that position and I'm very fond of him but it does have a bit of a "where worlds collide" feeling trying to meet up since we had DC because his time is his own in a way that ours just isn't, and his preoccupations are totally different.

Practically, I suggest you do three things. Firstly, book to see a solicitor (ideally with him - and not a 'family' one who already looks after things for his family) and go through things like the house ownership, wills etc. See what's possible and what they suggest and what it'll cost. In the (very affluent) town where I grew up, there is such a solicitor, used to dealing with high earners - they will have heard it all before!

Secondly, contact Relate. You and your DH are on very different pages about what you want from your relationship. See if you can hash it out.

Thirdly, cost up going it alone. You might have to if he refuses to engage with 1 and 2 and his attitude to parenting sounds off. Do not have a second child just yet!!

I don't understand why you are married to each other. He is selfish and doesn't respect you and their doesn't seem to be much for you to like about him. He sees you as a lodger in his house. You shouldn't be paying anything towards nursery as that's his choice to not look after the children when he can. If I was in your shoes I would be extremely resentful towards him.

If he isn't at least prepared to discuss finances now the family position has changed, then I'd start making some changes that affect him

Tell him you have reduced dc nursery to the three days you both work, and you will pay 50% of that. If he then wants dc in childcare on his days off he can sort it.

I'd stop buying food for the family - get dc eating 3 meals at nursery and on those days just make yourself a little something.

On days she is with him (which he will then sort childcare for), do the same. At the weekends take yourself and dd out for meals.

While this is going on, get yourself sorted to look at splitting.

The risk of doing a nursery reduction unilaterally would be that the DH doesn't care for the DC properly on the other 2 days (I'm thinking these types would normally dump with a female relative, friend's wife etc) or doesn't care for her at all, meaning the OP can't go to work. And then the nursery place may be gone.

He works three days a week yet your child is at nursery five days?
He pays half of the fees for the five days? On first glance that seems fair but it isn’t. Your child doesn’t need to be in nursery those two days yet she does go in so that he can tit about doing his hobbies/vanity projects.
I think you should pay for 1.5 days and he pays for 3.5 days.
Why are you working more hours just to keep running on the same spot financially yet he is working less?