Should I take DH off the mortgage?

[WishIWasACavewoman]

House renovations have run over budget (older property, extra problems), so booked bank appointment to discuss taking the balance out of equity. In the initial conversation the advisor said that in his view there should be no problem, with my salary and the amount of equity in the house.

It's a joint mortgage with me and DH named. I'm the main earner, DH is self-employed and has a history of failing to get on top of his career and money. Hes alwsys broke. All holidays, treats, house improvement, and things like school uniforms etc are on me. We both work full time. It's not that he's reckless, far from it. His confidence is low and he doesn't believe in himself, and perpetually just doesn't value himself and that comes through in his career decisions and options. He is very practical and does a lot around the house, with kids, and administers things like the household council bills etc.

I'm paying for the bulk of the renovation, it's not on the mortgage.

In the bank meeting, it emerged that he has £8k of personal debt, and the request for a mortgage extension was declined as a result.

I'm beyond furious. I've already cleared debts of his twice out of equity in the house. I've refused to do it again. The bank advisor suggested clearing his debts with what I have left in the renovation saving pot, which would mean we could get the mortgage extension even for the higher amount that would then require. But why the fuck should I?

Apart from the rage, I'm concerned about continuing to link my finances to his. He's become a liability. I was hoping that things were getting better, but this has shown both that he's not financially stable, and that we're not working as a team - I didn't know about his debt. I now don't think this will ever change.

Would I be best off asking for the mortgage to be in my sole name? I pay it anyway.

If you are married then I think he would be entitled to 50% of the equity in any event if you split up, whether he's on the title or not.

It's a bit shit but that's always the starting point as far as I know.

You chose to link your finances when you married him. Taking him off the mortgage might make this application easier, but it won't unlink your finances.

Yes, true re the equity, but that wasn't really where I was heading. I have considered divorce and this triggered those thoughts again - but young kids and having to sell the house I've worked so hard for (I know, sunk cost argument) plus the fact that we actually do get on, means I'm not convinced.

It is more whether it would be worth having the mortgage in my sole name, plus no joint bank account I suppose, would be sensible. It would humiliate him and undermine his confidence even more. But I am so frustrated at not being able to manage my own affairs appropriately because of his inability to rise to a challenge.

This might constitute him transferring half the equity to you, meaning you’d have to pay stamp duty on 50% of the value of your house. I’d definitely get some proper advice on this.

If you divorced the renovations are going to be pointless as won't you have to split the house to give him his share?
I wouldn't put your name on anything else with his either. I'd also be worried about future debt lies. The only things you can be confident on are things that require both your signature. He could be taking on personal credit anytime

I have considered divorce and this triggered those thoughts again - but young kids and having to sell the house I've worked so hard for (I know, sunk cost argument) plus the fact that we actually do get on, means I'm not convinced.

If divorce is a serious consideration, you need to factor in that you'll likely have more assets to split (i.e. more to lose financially) in 10, 15, 20 years time, and less time ahead of you to recoup that loss.

Why/how did he accrue the debt? Is family money shared, or is he trying to cover essential expenses with his income, which won't stretch to it?

I'm not really sure what the debt is from. I suspect a succession of things arising from chronic under-earning for years. He hasn't even made minimum wage several years, so it might just be clothes, fuel and general living (we cover all kids and house expenses from the joint account which is basically me transferring money from my salary every month, but I expect him to make a basic contribution and he might have run up debt to do that rather than admit he couldn't . I do need a calm conversation with him to understand this.

Divorce isn't really on the table. I don't think I can justify doing it to the kids. It's not like we aren't good housemates. I just want to protect myself against ever depending on him financially again, because even when I've got it covered he's still managed to wreck it.

Sounds like he's not cut out for self employment.

Is there a possibility of him getting an employed job in his field or a related one? At the very least he'd earn NMW plus get paid holidays, pension, statutory sick pay and a guaranteed income. Plus as well as earning more(?) he'd look better on paper to mortgage lenders.

But you also definitely need to investigate where his money is going. Is it just low income not covering his outgoings or is he spending on unaffordable things? Even buying lunch/coffee every day adds up if you do it often enough.

He's not, really. He's actually very good at what he does and his customers love him. But that doesn't translate to successful in business terms.

He's most likely dyslexic, growing up before it was really recognised, which is what gets in the way of confidence and abilities.

He's had jobs - but the majority of his career has been self-employed which doesn't make for good prospects when going for jobs in your 50s.

Ok so this could read like a higher earner keeping their money and the much lower earner going into debt as you “expect him to make a contribution”

I’ve seen threads from your husbands pov (but female) end up discussing possible financial abuse.

Agreed.

A discussion about a fair way of managing family finances is needed. Neither party should be getting into debt.

And if he is working full time, he needs to be bringing in at least NMW in future. If he's not suited to self employment then a discussion about potential employment options is needed.

He’s not very good at what he does, which is run a business. He may well be good as certain aspects of that business, but overall he’s not making a good enough profit to contribute at a level suitable for the lifestyle you both currently lead.

Take him off.

When I tried to do that, my DH had to have a solicitor to act for him as well and no solicitor was willing to do it, saying it was not in his interests to agree to it.

All transfers between spouses do not attract tax.

I don’t understand how he’s racked up this debt for basic necessities and theres so little communication between the two of you that you didn’t even know…

Taking him off the mortgage has the effect of making the debt yours solely. It does bugger all about the ownership of the house and does not trigger any transfer of rights.

This is untrue. Stamp duty may be payable if the person receiving the share of property is taking on mortgage debt for it, for example.

OP should take proper advice about this, from an actual solicitor.

Here you go, from the GOV.UK page on stamp duty:

“If you transfer the outstanding mortgage
Joint owners (this may include unmarried couples who are splitting up) may agree that just one of them will take over ownership of a property they bought together, including any outstanding mortgage.

In this case the person taking ownership will pay Stamp Duty Land Tax on the total chargeable consideration of either or both of the following, if it exceeds the Stamp Duty Land Tax threshold:

any cash payment that one of the couple makes to the other for their share
the proportion of the outstanding mortgage that belongs to the share of the property being transferred“

When we remortgaged a few years ago I asked the bank about putting the mortgage in my name only as I thought OH's credit history would stop us being approved. They said they wouldn't do it. They wouldn't allow a mortgage in my name only while the house was jointly owned, we'd have to transfer ownership of the house to me. Neither of us wanted to do that. (Didn't matter in the end, joint application was approved anyway)

As you're married it doesn't really matter whether you have him on the mortgage or not, he still owns half the house 🤷

Really appreciate everyone's answers. I'll try to cover the key points.

Re the financial abuse point: yes, I absolutely see the danger. I'm trying to keep us both the right side of the abuser/cocklodger lines. FWIW I don't think this fits either of us. I've offered to pay for and support him while he retrains, even a 3 year degree. I've offered he gives up work and becomes a SAHP, saving the childcare costs, but for his own dignity snd sense if self-worth i can see why he wants to work. I've arranged coaching, ffered to pay for business consultancy, and I've lent money to his business. I've offered everything in between. But, if he's working FT with those impacts on me - I currently do more stuff for kids and home than him on top of working a director level job - then I do think it's reasonable to expect that this results in a net gain for the family. Isn't the mumsnet wisdom that a job which doesn't pay the bills is a hobby?

Thanks very much to PP who took the trouble to explain stamp duty rules, which I didn't know and really appreciate. But to be clear, I don't want to take his share of the house. That's a totally different issue. I don't want to divorce, I want to be free to manage our finances, the money I bring in, for the family, without a gigantic googly in the way. This mortgage extension should have been straightforward and only isn't because of him.

To the PP who said he's bad at what he does in terms of running a business, well yes.

Thanks @RiderOfTheBlue . That sounds really similar to my situation and might have answered my question. Which is frustrating, but I'm grateful.