£900 gone to cryptocurrency company-bank won't refund

[SeriousAlligator]

My partner had two separate amounts go missing from her bank account over a short period of time, to a 'cryptocurrency' company. The bank will not refund. I've written three letters to them advising they're breaking their own policies by not refunding this money (using quotes from their own complaints policy website) as it is an unusual transaction, an unusual amount of money, at 0200 so an unusual time, etc etc.

All their responses have been along the lines of that the transaction required a pin for her internet banking to have been inputted-therefore they think my partner paid this money and is lying.

£900 is a lot of money to anyone, and I just think it is absolutely disgusting. Ombudsman is the next step I guess. Anyone ever been successful with this sort of thing, any advice?

I had a similar thing happen when my card was 'cloned' or such but my bank blocked most of the transactions and refunded me for the ones they hadn't, no problem! I just can't believe how obtuse her bank are being. She's been with them for 20 years!

What the scammers do is persuade the victim to open their own coinbase account then from there the money goes to the scammer so it is entirely possible that she has her own CB account but has still been scammed. They think they've moved their money to a genuine crypto investment company. The scams can be sophisticated- they can see their investments going up and down online etc but when they try and withdraw communication shuts down and they realised they've been scammed. These are very common scams and I deal with them daily at work. The banks response has nothing to do with crypto being unregulated.

From experience the likely explanation is that she's finding it hard to come to terms with the fact that she's been the victim of a scam and is embarrassed to tell you. It's very common. However she is more likely to get her money back if she tells the bank the truth. As it stands she is saying that she didn't make the payments when the bank systems are showing that she did so there is no way forward from there. Online fraud is probably the only crime where the language we use blames the victim. You can see on this thread people say she 'fell for' a scam when in reality people are targeted, groomed,manipulated by criminals. There is a lot of psychology involved so if this is what's happened to her and you value the relationship it might help to look at it a bit differently than just 'she's lied to me'

I'm really sorry but the more you say, the more I think you are being scammed.

have you seen all the details of what happened?

if you don't want to accuse her of lying, at least stop pursuing this and watch her behaviour carefully.

A person who won't deal with their own finances is one to avoid IMHO.

Look at OP’s previous posts. OP had previously been a victim of fraud their self from somebody using their card details to buy things online. It does sound suspicious. It’s usually the ones closest to you that are the perpetrator

I know it sounds daft but do you definitely have the right day of the transaction/ camping trip?

e.g. if you were camping on Sat 2 Jul and the transaction was at 2am on Sat 2 Jul, it would have occurred on the Friday night, not the Saturday. Just a thought!

Butitsnotfunnyisititsserious

Why not-because I am a night owl (hence I work nights, it suits me!) and I will often be the last one standing at any party/wedding etc, but she is the type to be wanting to sleep at 21:00 every night. After two years I know her to be thus.

When we camped she was the first in bed, I'd get up earlier than her despite being in bed later-she sleeps a lot. I just cannot see her waking at 02:00 to do something with her 'phone.

LubaLuca she is far too anxious to speak to her bank on the 'phone too. I may be old fashioned, but I always deal with all my affairs by letter and always have. Everything is tangible and indesputable then. Plus, I can legitimately write a letter, have her approve of it and send it-pretending to be her on the 'phone may be a tad more tricky, I am not an actress.

SaintHelena I don't think so because I have remembered now that she has actually corresponded with Coinbase via email.

Crucially, coinbase have said they have no account in her name and her bank account details are not in their files.

Sisisimone that's so sad. :( and I guess really has a huge market for the vulnerable or naïve or just people having a bad day and being a bit silly. I am going to approach this carefully certainly.

EmmaH2022 she isn't great with finances admittedly. A bit of a spendthrift, whereas I earn more but am much more careful.

chewbecca thank you, that's a good point and a very easy thing to become confused about (and as a night shift worker, something that is often an occurrence with me, I'll say 'tomorrow' when I actually mean 'later on today!' quite often.

Thanks again for everyone's responses.

To clarify, she did email coinbase when this all first occurred (on advice of her bank) and they clarified they have no record of her or her bank account details.

And, I am a woman. I can't really win when I do things like this if I clarify that I am a lesbian in threads, I get 'Why say you're a gay woman, It's not relevant!' and if I don't, people assume I am male. Not that it matters but just for clarity :)

So what are you actually suggesting happened here then OP?

OP "EmmaH2022 she isn't great with finances admittedly. A bit of a spendthrift, whereas I earn more but am much more careful."

it isn't just that though
she is wanting someone to do the adulting for her? I don't think it's ever a good idea to date that person, sorry. You're essentially saying she is a bit spendy, lacks independence, can't deal with her own finances....I just see a lot of red flags.

to that end, I hope you have checked all aspects of the story because I wonder if she is simply hoping you can fix things after she's fallen for a scam, or also thinking you will give her some money to help out.

PS I have had D&A for years but I adult for myself. If she is ill enough that she can't, and you say she sleeps a lot, I guess it's different.

I just assumed you were a woman by the way you wrote.

Oblomov22 I honestly have not got the foggiest really, out of a few options. I am assuming someone has scammed her somehow, especially now I have remembered about her contacting Coinbase. The responses here made me reconsider and believe it may have been that she's made a mistake or misdemeanor and not dared tell me, that's definitely possible-but it would seem foolish to then ask me to try to rectify it.

Perhaps it is a company posing as coinbase?
I really made this thread to get some ideas as to how to best go about sorting it, but I am welcoming any input.
emmah2022 I hear you. I've done different threads about the situation under other names and I agree. I am actually on a bit of a break from seeing her currently due to unrelated but perhaps similar reasons. But obviously not relevant to this situation.
Definitely not providing any money though.
She has been to the GP about her disordely sleep patterns, nothing diagnosed yet. She can literally go to sleep at 22:00 and not wake until 17:00 the next day if left to her own devices.
ILoveAllRainbowsx I know irrelevant to this topic but I would love to analyse how men and women's writing styles have differences! :)

Disorderly, even

I thought I'd seen threads from someone similar

in terms of ideas of how to handle it, until you can ascertain what's happened - scammer etc - it's impossible to advise. When you know what you're dealing with then Money Matters or Legal Matters could probably help.

I'd just leave it though.

Have you checked her computer and phone history around the dates these payments were made?
Did she go off while camping? Could someone have persuaded her to get involved? That it was a safe money making scheme and she doesn't want to tell you who it was.
All seems very strange. Kind of makes me glad I have no spare money to make mistakes with!

I'm not sure if you can solve the mystery of where the money went op and I am no expert in any of this.

The only thing I can categorically tell you is that when someone's account of an event doesn't make sense, it is because there is a lie somewhere.

Good luck!

EmmaH2022 Yes I need to do some more digging don't I.
Jas5mum she doesn't have a computer, I don't think I'd feel right asking to check her 'phone.
But no, she didn't go off anywhere.

It is weird I agree.
minimalme yes that is the norm I agree, It's
just now I have realised that she's been in contact with coinbase, it doesn't seem to add up.

Totally irrelevant to the point but I assumed you were female from your writing style too 😂
Generalising massively here but your level of detail, thoughtfulness and thoroughness is just not something many men I know would be able to achieve!

Yes, this is exactly why I just assumed that you were a woman. You sound so caring and thoughtful.

Obviously, some men can also be caring and thoughtful, but I don't think that it would come across in the same way in writing.

Also had you pegged as a woman. 😂🤷‍♀️

Also, OP, in case you don't know, if you want someone to reply to you, it is best to put an @ in front of their name. That way, they will receive an email.

For example:

@SeriousAlligator

@SeriousAlligator

As far as the bank is concerned the transaction was approved appropriately and therefore they won’t take liability to refund.

It will have been authorised by the banking app, confirmed text, two factor authorisation code etc

But that doesn’t mean that fraud hasn’t occurred, particularly as Coinbase don’t seem to recognise her details.
The payment could have gone through a dodgy app/game or dodgy email/link/text etc and the destination name could be shown as Coinbase but be something using a similar name.

Potentialy it is through the real Coinbase but to a fraudsters account and the company therefore don’t have your girlfriends details.

Raise it through ActionFraud and report it as fraud with the police. The money might never be seen again, but try to get as many details as possible on the actual transactions for the destination etc

My sister had something like this happen to her.
It turned out she'd spent the money, was ashamed to tell her family because we all knew she was "spendy" and so she escalated it as a full fraud report.
Unfortunately for her, the bank and shops involved checked the CCTV at the places she said she disputed the transactions.
It was her.
She still kept pursuing it because now she wanted so badly not to be wrong.
It was really hard to watch.
Some people will convince themselves black is white if it means they don't have to sit with the feeling that they made a very poor decision.
She was showing it to me all the way through, at the time I thought she needed help but I think now it was validation and possibly money that she was after from me.
She threatened the bank with the ombudsman, threatened to sue the shops, wrote angry letter after angry letter, absolutely adamant all the way through, until the bank eventually told her about the CCTV.
Even then she was spinning yarns, telling me they could have got someone wearing a wig and all sorts but she finally dropped it and never mentioned it again.

I can't honestly remember what made her drop it though, but years later she admitted she'd spent the money.

@chewbecca that is a generalisation* but generalisations become such for a reason!

@iloveallrainbowsx Thank you

@dfudfootedbangle
@tommika yes, that's what they're saying.
And that her email address isn't registered to them either.

I think she has reported it to AF and the police, in fact I am sure she did but I will double check. As I used to work for the police, I kind of know how it works, AF take a lot of time to do anything if they do it at all, and even if they do the monies are not recovered.

@peekabooatthezoo Thank you for sharing that story about your sister. I am not sure what to say to it other than, I just cannot imagine what was going on in her swede at that point, she must have been so very stressed. What a tangled web we weave 'n all. Is she less 'spendy' now?

Last night I asked my gf if she had an email from coinbase for me to forward to the bank, proving that they did not have her details. She asked me to login to her email (I honestly feel so uncomfortable with this sort of thing, I mean it is refreshing that she trusts me and 100% has nothing to hide but neither have I and I would still feel that was an invasion of privacy!) and just look at all the email exchange between her and coinbase recently. I searched 'coinbase' and the only ones that come up are recent and to do with this situation.

Of course she may have a 'secret' email address and I am not completely naïve and know this doesn't mean she isn't having me on. But it makes it less likely I would think.

Do you know and trust all the people on the camping trip where the fraud occurred? Since the transaction was authenticated from GF's phone, did someone in the group take her phone for the evening? If she is not very worldly wise, it is possible someone in the camping party targeted her.

Hi OP,
Just to ask have you checked your girlfriends banking app to check the two step authentication is still linked to her own phone number and the number has not been changed.

Just because the bank says something is true I wouldn't just take their word for it. Recent article on the news of flurry of people using their cards in ATMs that were then used to withdraw funds from nearby ATMs without the card I believe. No doubt the customer would have been told the card and pin were used so it must have been you if there wasn't a spate of them.

The most urgent thing to do is secure her account. Change all passswords. None reused. No dates of birth. No pets names. Not shared with anyone. I would be tempted to factory reset the phone in case a rogue app allows someone to view her screen but I appreciate that could be a pain with her contacts unless you are savvy and understand all the restore features. There are spohisticated scams don't underestimate them.

Also don't underestimate a gamblers addictive drive. They will risk absolutely everything to gamble (thinking of associates at the camp trip). I remember seeing a programme where the gambler knew if they used their work credit card to gamble they would lose their (good) job. They knew it and they did it anyway. Powerless to resist.

Good luck. You're kind to help with this.