No will - is life insurance subject to intestacy rules and would this cause a delay?

[drylavender]

My DH has no will. I’m a SAHM with young DC and have been asking him to sort this out for years. DH tells me that he has life insurance and that I’d get a payout from his work too if he died however I worry that it would form part of his estate and be subject to interstacy rules without a will, and that no will will cause a delay even though I’m named as beneficiary. I’m financially reliant on him so this is a massive worry. If he died I wouldn’t even be able to cover next months bills as his salary goes into his personal account. I’ve looked on the life insurer provider’s site but some of the info seems contradictory to me. In one part it makes it sound as though it’s easy if a beneficiary is named but then in another it says not having a will can make it more complicated and interstacy could apply. He knows how worried I am - I regularly lose sleep over it and ask him to get a will made but I can’t make him sort it out. So I will worry less if the life insurance isn’t affected by not having a will as long as a beneficiary is named. Does anyone know anything about this?

I believe if you are married you are automatically next of kin so would be ok but I'm sure people with more knowledge can confirm.

I’m afraid I don’t know the answer to that - I suspect it’s outside of his estate, but that doesn’t mean you’d get a payout immediately, of course.

Can you ask him to put some savings into your name? And set up a joint account for bills/spending?

You could make an appointment together to get wills made - it’s WillAid month in November: www.willaid.org.uk/

If he does die without a will then as his spouse you inherit, and shouldn’t be contested so it’s not a huge problem but it doesn’t solve your immediate worry about money. Even with a will it takes time to process probate. So I’d focus on making sure you have fair access to family money, if that is not already set up.

Additionally, do you have life insurance? If you died unexpectedly, how would your DH care for the children as well as work? A SAHM is very valuable when DC are young and so you should have life insurance too.

Thanks, however I believe it isn’t as straightforward as that, even when married.

www.which.co.uk/money/wills-and-probate/probate/intestacy-rules-ay87y1u73pkk

Thanks, NoSquirrels, I’ve also asked if he could put his savings into a joint account but no luck there either!

Yes, I’ve read it can take 9-12 months to sort out probate which is a massive worry.

I will mention the will aid month and see if he’ll agree to do it together then. We had wills before we married (made as we were seeing a solicitor for something else anyway) but they were made invalid on marriage and wouldn’t be relevant now anyway.

I do have life insurance, but for a much lower amount than my DH, as he would just need extra for childcare.

Thank you for your reply.

Also the bills come out of a joint account but he literally transfers just enough to cover the bills for that month when he gets paid.

Which is also a worry for if he were hospitalised long term or something.

I think you need to read up on what happens when someone dies, to set your mind at rest.

In your case your DH dying intestate would just mean that you get ‘letters of administration’ to deal with the estate and everything else would go on as per if he did have a will. There shouldn’t be any hold ups or extra hassle. If you own a property jointly it automatically becomes yours. If you have joint bank accounts or savings accounts they would also automatically become yours. I think if you’re a spouse and named on his life insurance as the beneficiary there shouldn’t be any additional hassle - the ‘could be more complicated if intestacy applies’ would be in the case of e.g. a new partner but not divorced from ex, or dependant children but a new unmarried partner named or things like that, where the life insurance company would have a conflict of interest between who to pay to and have to abide by the legal intestacy procedures. In a case where it’s just you and your DH it should be straightforward.

But none of it would solve your immediate access to money in the event of his death so I’d start there with joint bank accounts, savings etc.

Is there any chance that he’s putting off making a will because he’s already made one and you’re not the beneficiary ?

I’d be insisting on joint savings. What’s his reasoning not to? Do you feel you have fair access to money and an equal say?

Dying without a will doesn't make it any slower to get hold of money. My dad died without a will and I just administered his estate via the intestacy rules and it was quite simple. Even if there's a will you have to go through probate. If you are legally married and in England or Wales you will inherit the first 270k. Plus if your name is on the property deeds your portion doesn't count towards that figure.

The main issue is that with or without a will it can be difficult to get hold of money until everything is sorted. Sometimes banks freeze accounts, although they will release money for essential bills if asked. So you ideally need some cash in your name you can access.

The 270,000 limit on intestate spousal inheritance before you start to split it with the children sounds worrying, but actually if you own your house as joint tenants then that's not part of the estate so isn't counted in the 270.

How long before your marriage were your last wills drawn up? Are you sure they weren't written to remain in force when you got married? Annoying if you do have to get them rewritten.

Life insurance and death in service benefits are nothing to do with the will so you should be fine (unless he literally has another secret family elsewhere).

www.citizensadvice.org.uk/family/death-and-wills/who-can-inherit-if-there-is-no-will-the-rules-of-intestacy/

It's £270K plus 50% according to this.

What isn't clear is what happens if the husband disinherits the wife (or vice versa). Is the surviving spouse assumed to own 50% of the assets and then it's the remainder that is dealt with according to the will (whilst ensuring the spouse is provided for) or does the will take control of the entire assets of the marriage? I can't find anything online to say one way or the other.

And in practical terms I'd just make sure you have access to an account that will provide you with 6-12 months of living expenses if he dies. If your DH won't agree to this then you have a bigger problem than him dieing intestate.

My understanding is that if a life policy is written 'in trust' (the beneficiary is named in a trust deed lodged with the insurer) then the money goes directly to the beneficiary and does not form part of the estate. This can be done after the policy is taken out by getting a form from the insurer (or certainly used to be done like that).
Your bigger problem is how you would access living expenses in the interim - even paying policy proceeds directly to you, you will still have to wait to get a death certificate (which may not be immediate depending on circumstances of death) and then wait for the insurer to process the claim. Also what if your DH were to become incapacitated rather than die (eg in a coma or seriously ill in hospital)? You would currently not be able to access any living expenses. At the very least you need a joint account to enable you to access a decent amount if funds and at best you should have a Power of Attorney ready to go in the event of unfortunate circumstances.

Why is he keeping his money separate from yours if you’re married and have DC together?

This would worry me far more than his refusal to make a will. Though that is also very worrying, especially as you have DC.

I would set up everything to make a will together and sit down one night and tell him you need an updated will because your situation has changed and you now have DC. If he still refuses, ask him why and if he won’t give you a reasonable answer, that would be a huge red flag for me.

Phone a will company, dictate his will, when it arrives, gather witnesses, get him to read and sign it.
Job done!

I work in this area and agree with everything Bigblue has said. Most of your immediate worries would be fixed by you being a joint account holder then if he dropped dead or was incapable you have access to funds

What about guardians for your children if you both die? Have you made a will ?

Work life insurance won't go into his estate, it will be written into trust and will be administered by the trustees of the pension scheme (appointed by the employer not your husband).
He will have been asked to fill out an expression of wishes on joining the scheme and he could have put you. However supposing he put the cat's home, you could contact the trustees if he died and tell them you're his dependent. It's then up to them to decide if your claim is legitimate as they can absolutely override his wishes if circumstances dictate.
Having or not having a will won't interfere with this sort of life insurance.

Hi OP I hope I can help you. My husband died suddenly in 2018 with no will. I received his work life insurance (not part of the estate) after about 3 months. It has recently come to light that he had private life insurance as well (no named beneficary, he took it out before meeting me and never updated). I've been working with my lawyer to get the letters of administration for about 5 months and hope to have it resolved next month.

I really would insist your DH make a will. Has he said why he does not want to?

Why is he keeping his money separate from yours if you’re married and have DC together?

Standard MumsNet advice - keep finances separate. (FWIW we're not good MumsNeters - everything joint).

Works life insurance check if he's made a nomination form. It'll be payable by the trustees to whoever is on the form. If he hasn't it's probably going to you but a nomination form will speed things up probably. We had an issue at last place of work where a man died and his nomination form was made out to his ex not his current wife, no ulterior motive he just hadn't gotten around to changing.

Yes and no, the life assurance can have named beneficiaries in which case it's not part of the main estate, ditto he can name you as the sole beneficiary from his work cover. Speak to an expert but I'm pretty sure there won't be a delay on that. If you are joint tenants (rather than tenants in common) for your house then that's automatic too. His estate is then comprised of things solely in his name eg savings accounts, car and thus likely below the threshold to worry about it too much. A simple typed at home will stating he leaves everything to you and witnessed by two independent people not related to you is a simple way to relieve your worries, you can get a free model one off the internet.

@NoSquirrels

I think you need to read up on what happens when someone dies, to set your mind at rest.

In your case your DH dying intestate would just mean that you get ‘letters of administration’ to deal with the estate and everything else would go on as per if he did have a will. There shouldn’t be any hold ups or extra hassle. If you own a property jointly it automatically becomes yours. If you have joint bank accounts or savings accounts they would also automatically become yours. I think if you’re a spouse and named on his life insurance as the beneficiary there shouldn’t be any additional hassle - the ‘could be more complicated if intestacy applies’ would be in the case of e.g. a new partner but not divorced from ex, or dependant children but a new unmarried partner named or things like that, where the life insurance company would have a conflict of interest between who to pay to and have to abide by the legal intestacy procedures. In a case where it’s just you and your DH it should be straightforward.

But none of it would solve your immediate access to money in the event of his death so I’d start there with joint bank accounts, savings etc.

Thank you, that’s reassuring.

But yes, the immediate access to money is something that needs sorting out.

@GoodnightGrandma

Is there any chance that he’s putting off making a will because he’s already made one and you’re not the beneficiary ?

I really don’t think so. He just doesn’t worry about the future like I do - he thinks I’m crazy for worrying about what might happen - and just deals with things as they happen. He also doesn’t have the get up and go to get things sorted out, this goes for things that need doing in the house too.

@NoSquirrels

I’d be insisting on joint savings. What’s his reasoning not to? Do you feel you have fair access to money and an equal say?

It’s because we were together for years before getting married and further years before having children. So I worked full time for many years while we were together, and having separate accounts and both of us transferring money into a joint account for bills each month worked well; what was left in our personal accounts was ours to spend as we liked.

However this is still the situation; we still just have the joint account into which he transfers just enough for bills, and then our personal accounts. He transfers money to me each month for spending - enough to cover clothes and things for the children, with a bit left over for myself. I’ve no idea if it’s fair because deals with the finances - I have no idea how much disposable income he has compared to myself.

I’m happy with this, but I would like to be named on his savings account so I could access the money in that if required.

@Almostwelsh

Dying without a will doesn't make it any slower to get hold of money. My dad died without a will and I just administered his estate via the intestacy rules and it was quite simple. Even if there's a will you have to go through probate. If you are legally married and in England or Wales you will inherit the first 270k. Plus if your name is on the property deeds your portion doesn't count towards that figure.

The main issue is that with or without a will it can be difficult to get hold of money until everything is sorted. Sometimes banks freeze accounts, although they will release money for essential bills if asked. So you ideally need some cash in your name you can access.

I’m sorry about your dad

Thank you.

My name is joint on the mortgage/ deeds but once the life insurance paid off the mortgage, there wouldn’t be much left over with the 270k interstacy rule.

This is what worries me. I’ve been focused on a will but I need to sort the access to money as a priority too.