No will - is life insurance subject to intestacy rules and would this cause a delay?

[drylavender]

My DH has no will. I’m a SAHM with young DC and have been asking him to sort this out for years. DH tells me that he has life insurance and that I’d get a payout from his work too if he died however I worry that it would form part of his estate and be subject to interstacy rules without a will, and that no will will cause a delay even though I’m named as beneficiary. I’m financially reliant on him so this is a massive worry. If he died I wouldn’t even be able to cover next months bills as his salary goes into his personal account. I’ve looked on the life insurer provider’s site but some of the info seems contradictory to me. In one part it makes it sound as though it’s easy if a beneficiary is named but then in another it says not having a will can make it more complicated and interstacy could apply. He knows how worried I am - I regularly lose sleep over it and ask him to get a will made but I can’t make him sort it out. So I will worry less if the life insurance isn’t affected by not having a will as long as a beneficiary is named. Does anyone know anything about this?

I'm sorry this is harsh but why the hell would you agree to be a SAHM without access to family money.

You have far bigger problems than a will.

Fair enough to have separate finances when you're both working.

I think you must know this and the will anxiety is displacement.

@TheNatureOfTheCatastrophe

The 270,000 limit on intestate spousal inheritance before you start to split it with the children sounds worrying, but actually if you own your house as joint tenants then that's not part of the estate so isn't counted in the 270.

How long before your marriage were your last wills drawn up? Are you sure they weren't written to remain in force when you got married? Annoying if you do have to get them rewritten.

Life insurance and death in service benefits are nothing to do with the will so you should be fine (unless he literally has another secret family elsewhere).

We do own the house jointly but once life insurance paid off the mortgage, I wouldn’t be left with much to live on under the 270k rule. Eventually I’d get a job but that would be easier said than done in the short term with being out of the workforce for a number of years, young children and no family around.

The wills were drawn up the year before getting married, when we bought our house, but they aren’t relevant now anyway as children weren’t in the picture back then. I’m not sure if they were written to remain in force as I can’t find the copy and the solicitors no longer exists,

Thank you, that’s reassuring.

@MiddlesexGirl

www.citizensadvice.org.uk/family/death-and-wills/who-can-inherit-if-there-is-no-will-the-rules-of-intestacy/

It's £270K plus 50% according to this.

What isn't clear is what happens if the husband disinherits the wife (or vice versa). Is the surviving spouse assumed to own 50% of the assets and then it's the remainder that is dealt with according to the will (whilst ensuring the spouse is provided for) or does the will take control of the entire assets of the marriage? I can't find anything online to say one way or the other.

Thanks. I find it all very confusing!

When we decided I would be a sahm for a few years, we had a joint account for DH's wage, what little savings we had left after buying a house were split into an account each and he set up an equal standing order into each savings account.

I would question why your husband would take any risk that you couldn't afford the bills until payouts were sorted out.

Now I work again, we still have wages in the joint account and equal but separate savings. Joint savings accounts doesn't stop one person planning ahead, emptying the account and doing a runner.

@bigbluebus

My understanding is that if a life policy is written 'in trust' (the beneficiary is named in a trust deed lodged with the insurer) then the money goes directly to the beneficiary and does not form part of the estate. This can be done after the policy is taken out by getting a form from the insurer (or certainly used to be done like that). Your bigger problem is how you would access living expenses in the interim - even paying policy proceeds directly to you, you will still have to wait to get a death certificate (which may not be immediate depending on circumstances of death) and then wait for the insurer to process the claim. Also what if your DH were to become incapacitated rather than die (eg in a coma or seriously ill in hospital)? You would currently not be able to access any living expenses. At the very least you need a joint account to enable you to access a decent amount if funds and at best you should have a Power of Attorney ready to go in the event of unfortunate circumstances.

Thank you, and I agree with all that. I just need him to get on it! He’s too laid back, he doesn’t worry about the future and doesn’t seem to think anything will happen to him so doesn’t understand why I worry. He’s not a picture of health either!

@Warmduscher

Why is he keeping his money separate from yours if you’re married and have DC together?

This would worry me far more than his refusal to make a will. Though that is also very worrying, especially as you have DC.

I would set up everything to make a will together and sit down one night and tell him you need an updated will because your situation has changed and you now have DC. If he still refuses, ask him why and if he won’t give you a reasonable answer, that would be a huge red flag for me.

I answered this in response to another reply, but basically because we were together for many years before getting married and having children. It worked well for us then, but it just hasn’t changed.

Thanks, I have brought it all up so many times that I’ve lost count. It makes no difference.

@Mybalconyiscracking

Phone a will company, dictate his will, when it arrives, gather witnesses, get him to read and sign it. Job done!

Ha, I’m getting to this point!

@MsTSwift

I work in this area and agree with everything Bigblue has said. Most of your immediate worries would be fixed by you being a joint account holder then if he dropped dead or was incapable you have access to funds

Thank you. I will focus on this firstly then.

Life insurance definitely not part of the estate, I have a life insurance policy for my partner because of this - he is not yet divorced but life insurance is for me if needed. You need to be more proactive, and you can take out life insurance on him, with you being the beneficiary

www.gov.uk/bereavement-support-payment

At present if you are married or in a civil partnership at the time of death you would be eligible for this payment. The provisos are that he/she paid all the required national insurance payments.

There are plans to include unmarried parents in the future. I am one and currently unable to claim. www.gov.uk/government/news/cohabiting-couples-to-benefit-from-changes-to-bereavement-benefit-rules

@nimbuscloud

What about guardians for your children if you both die? Have you made a will ?

No, again, mine is out of date. We both need to go and redo them.

We would struggle to name guardians. We have no family who would be in a great situation to take them so I’d want it to be whoever was in the best place to take them at the time. I’m not sure if you can put that into a will!

@iloverunningslow

Work life insurance won't go into his estate, it will be written into trust and will be administered by the trustees of the pension scheme (appointed by the employer not your husband). He will have been asked to fill out an expression of wishes on joining the scheme and he could have put you. However supposing he put the cat's home, you could contact the trustees if he died and tell them you're his dependent. It's then up to them to decide if your claim is legitimate as they can absolutely override his wishes if circumstances dictate. Having or not having a will won't interfere with this sort of life insurance.

Thank you that’s a great help and very reassuring - I couldn’t find anything about this anywhere.

He has named me on his death in service benefit but I wasn’t sure if it would count as part of his estate.

@heidbuttsupper

Hi OP I hope I can help you. My husband died suddenly in 2018 with no will. I received his work life insurance (not part of the estate) after about 3 months. It has recently come to light that he had private life insurance as well (no named beneficary, he took it out before meeting me and never updated). I've been working with my lawyer to get the letters of administration for about 5 months and hope to have it resolved next month.

I really would insist your DH make a will. Has he said why he does not want to?

I am so sorry for your loss I hope you get the life insurance sorted out soon.

It’s basically because he can’t be bothered I think.

As PP have said please set up a trust for his life policy. This is very simple as the form for this is on the life company's website. Print, sign, witness, post. This will ensure that the life policy money will be given to you as soon as you provide the death certificate.

A will is also needed especially for guardians for kids. But that takes much longer to sort out than a trust form which is a 5 minute job.

@BigFatLiar

Why is he keeping his money separate from yours if you’re married and have DC together?

Standard MumsNet advice - keep finances separate. (FWIW we're not good MumsNeters - everything joint).

Works life insurance check if he's made a nomination form. It'll be payable by the trustees to whoever is on the form. If he hasn't it's probably going to you but a nomination form will speed things up probably. We had an issue at last place of work where a man died and his nomination form was made out to his ex not his current wife, no ulterior motive he just hadn't gotten around to changing.

I’m named on both his work death in service benefit (though I guess I should ask for details as I have not even a phone number for his work!) and on his private life insurance. Wasn’t sure if it classed as part of his estate though. Yes, I think that’s the reason for my issues here - he just hasn’t got around to it (after numerous years!).

Can you set up a separate joint savings account which he can put money into each month & build it up to at least 3 months worth of bills & expenses? Once you are back at work you could also contribute. Preferably just keep saving on the understanding it is only accessed in the event of death or serious injury for either of you. Call it a long term emergency fund. It's a bit more peace of mind for you knowing there is a lump sum you can access.

@gogohm

Yes and no, the life assurance can have named beneficiaries in which case it's not part of the main estate, ditto he can name you as the sole beneficiary from his work cover. Speak to an expert but I'm pretty sure there won't be a delay on that. If you are joint tenants (rather than tenants in common) for your house then that's automatic too. His estate is then comprised of things solely in his name eg savings accounts, car and thus likely below the threshold to worry about it too much. A simple typed at home will stating he leaves everything to you and witnessed by two independent people not related to you is a simple way to relieve your worries, you can get a free model one off the internet.

Thanks, that’s really helpful and reassuring.

I’m named with his work benefit and life insurance and we’re joint on the mortgage.

He doesn’t have much else to his name - savings aren’t significant, but would be enough to help me get by for a few months, which is what I need!

Thank you. I wondered about the home made wills - do you need to register them with anyone?

@Wriggleon

Life insurance definitely not part of the estate, I have a life insurance policy for my partner because of this - he is not yet divorced but life insurance is for me if needed. You need to be more proactive, and you can take out life insurance on him, with you being the beneficiary

Thank you. We both have life insurance with the other named, but I wasn’t sure if it would class as part of his estate. And also if no will delays getting it, even if named.

I haven't even applied for probate yet, but I've had the life insurance payouts from his last and previous pensions.

I think it was easier/quicker because I was the named beneficiary and we were married, they wanted to see the original marriage certificate. More hoops to jump through if you're not married I think.

With no will, everything passes to you anyway (unless it's a large estate) but the imeadiate problem, will or not, is having cash for daily expenses as any accounts in his name will be frozen. You must have money in your own or joint names.

[quote butterfly990]www.gov.uk/bereavement-support-payment

At present if you are married or in a civil partnership at the time of death you would be eligible for this payment. The provisos are that he/she paid all the required national insurance payments.

There are plans to include unmarried parents in the future. I am one and currently unable to claim. www.gov.uk/government/news/cohabiting-couples-to-benefit-from-changes-to-bereavement-benefit-rules[/quote]
Thank you, that’s really helpful and reassuring that there’s something like that available - I had no idea.

@TeenTitan007

As PP have said please set up a trust for his life policy. This is very simple as the form for this is on the life company's website. Print, sign, witness, post. This will ensure that the life policy money will be given to you as soon as you provide the death certificate.

A will is also needed especially for guardians for kids. But that takes much longer to sort out than a trust form which is a 5 minute job.

Thanks, I will look into this - I am named beneficiary and assumed that would be enough (with a will).

@CoffeeBeansGalore

Can you set up a separate joint savings account which he can put money into each month & build it up to at least 3 months worth of bills & expenses? Once you are back at work you could also contribute. Preferably just keep saving on the understanding it is only accessed in the event of death or serious injury for either of you. Call it a long term emergency fund. It's a bit more peace of mind for you knowing there is a lump sum you can access.

This is a good idea, thanks. I will mention the idea but I suspect the money would have to come out of what he gives me (and I don’t get enough to be able to save).

Thank you all, I appreciate the replies.

I’m aware I’ll probably die first now - and I wouldn’t be surprised given the worrying I’ve been doing - but getting it sorted would be a massive weight off my mind.

Forget the £270k rule. His death in service benefit sits outside of this. It's not part of his estate. If you're nominated, you'll get the lot. Probably plus a small spouses pension.

His estate is his share of the house if you own as tenants in common plus savings etc. If you own the house as joint tenants then like the life insurance, the house passes straight to you and sits outside his estate.

If he has savings / assets (car, jewellery etc) of over £270k then it gets distributed as per the intestacy rules.

Having a will makes life a bit easier administratively, but not having one doesn't make things financially harder than they otherwise would be - you'd still be sensible to have access to two or three months of his salary in savings to tide you over till the life insurance and possible pension paid out.

While it's a very good thing to have a will for admin reasons, and to know what your access to immediate cash would be in the event of your husband's death, I don't think you need to be too terrified of the intestacy situation.

His half of the house goes to you automatically.
Life insurance to pay off the mortgage goes to you automatically.
Death in service benefit goes to you automatically.
The contents of the joint bills account goes to you automatically - I know you said that's not much.
Any benefit related to a pension plan would go to you automatically.
Government Bereavement allowance goes to you automatically.

Then you look at what's left, which would normally be his personal possessions, his current account and his savings account. If those items, and only those items, are less than 270,000 then it all goes to you. If it's more than that, then the excess is split between you and the children. So if he had £300,000 in savings, or maybe a holiday home in his name only, then you'd get 270,000, plus half of £30,000 ie £285,000, and the children would get £15,000 between them.