MLM Bot Watch 66: Missing Messiah and cheap lounge wear

[acatcalledjohn]

As you were.

OOh - Very interesting, has Castle done the same then?
Is JL now engaging with HMRC or still just ignoring them?

And the actual owners of the company just sit back and watch the money roll in

I remember seeing screenshots of Uber directing people to put in orders under people in her downline to boost them. If you know how to play the game you can work out how to do this sort of thing and it bears no relationship at all to running an actual business

Very interesting indeed.
Is there any evidence on the likes of Castle, Yawn, BFF, Lanza etc doing this as they all seemed to have big teams with the Managers? - the FLP Top 20 includes regular names each year. Hard to imagine NOT being in the know if that's what's going on?
Is the same thing replicated in other MLM's?

No one new has broken into the top ranks for years now I think? Same old faces

If you look back at old FL magazines or Success Days where they used to have huge lists of new Supervisors and managers, most of those people have dropped out

The likes of Uber and Yawn need constant new recruits, it’s incredible really, by now the whole country should be working ‘alongside’ Forever Living

Soon as I get a minute I will tell you the real situation regarding those cheques from a VERY good source indeed! And will fill you in on your question regarding Castle and Co!

Popcorn at the ready!

PhD showing that despite being soul aligned with her money (or whatever) she does not understand basic business finances (or chooses not to in order to reel people into whatever her latest programme is). 1000 people paying you 1000 pounds in one year does not make you a millionaire. Your assets (after expenses and tax) will not be a million pounds therefore you are not a millionaire. Ditto 100 people paying 1000 pounds or whatever does not mean you a six figure income. Notoriously many entrepreneurs pay themselves little or no actually salary in the start (even when the business has income coming in).

Sounds very like a closed shop scenario.

I am sure that PhD has taken into consideration that £1,000,000 actually nets down to £542,196 after tax and NI.

Plus I am sure she is fully aware of the implication of payment on account and cash flow requirements.

I am 100% certain she is aware of the 60% taxation anomoly above £100k of Net Adjusted earnings.

And I can also assume that she would let her clients know the implications of taper relief on their pension contributions.

@Spongebobette

No one new has broken into the top ranks for years now I think? Same old faces

If you look back at old FL magazines or Success Days where they used to have huge lists of new Supervisors and managers, most of those people have dropped out

The likes of Uber and Yawn need constant new recruits, it’s incredible really, by now the whole country should be working ‘alongside’ Forever Living

Been reading this thread with interest. I was in FL years ago but left as was increasingly concerned with recruiting tactics I was expected to follow.
In my day (10+ years ago) you would have 10+ new Managers, more Assistant Managers, loads and loads of Supervisors at each Success Day. Just seen the latest list and I'm gobsmacked. Hardly any promotions at all. There used to be more than that just within my region. What's happened?!

@BotOff

Sorry for the delay but been very busy in my real day job and getting paid for it😂 So, the story on Homeschool Bot let me explain for those new to the party! In FLP to gain promotion past manager you need frontline (personally recruited) bots to achieve manager. Quite often someone who is a bot recruited by their frontline achieves it instead. The person who recruited the new manager then becomes an unrecognised manager and is no value to them! These crooks such as Homeschool came up with a plan to basically bribe and get rid of the bot (personally recruited) that sits in the way to their next promotion and more money because the new manager then moves up frontline to them. I actually have screenshots of the bribe she sent offering £500 to resign and still give them manager discount! Also cleverly trying to imply it was standard and ok practice when actually it’s fraudulent and against company rules. Obviously FLP KNOWS it goes on but being the corrupt industry they are they turn a blind eye. Yup, they have pointless rules they ignore if it lines the coffers more! Yet more disgusting behaviour hidden from the lower bots so they don’t know that these ‘superstars’ got there by cheating! I know for a fact JL Bot’s teams were at this too (with horrific bullying going on). They had a ridiculously high amount of managers coming through in those teams back in the day from this practice and also stacking sales through chosen individuals to push them to manager. All built on sand and why JL Bot’s business ultimately collapsed and is now in the shit! Be back again with more on Homeschool (trust me she really is a vile character) and also got some juice on Uber have just had from a friend of a friend that is in the know🤗🤗🤗

Getting rid of unrecognised managers definitely happens. I knew it happening within my wider team (not people under me, people across line from me). That was some years ago but it sounds it's still going on.

@definitelynotabot I was in around 15/16 years ago, the success days were huge. I remember the number of supervisors in each monthly magazine would easily take up a whole page. The number of people being recruited was insane.

[quote CurlsandCurves]@definitelynotabot I was in around 15/16 years ago, the success days were huge. I remember the number of supervisors in each monthly magazine would easily take up a whole page. The number of people being recruited was insane.[/quote]
I'm interested to know what the numbers were like pre Covid. I do think Success Days played a big part in incentive to get to x position. Will they be able to achieve that Success Day atmosphere over Zoom? I can't see it. Or had they got low before Covid? I've not looked at this for a long while so was really surprised.

@fromdownwest

I am sure that PhD has taken into consideration that £1,000,000 actually nets down to £542,196 after tax and NI.

Plus I am sure she is fully aware of the implication of payment on account and cash flow requirements.

I am 100% certain she is aware of the 60% taxation anomoly above £100k of Net Adjusted earnings.

And I can also assume that she would let her clients know the implications of taper relief on their pension contributions.

And since (In both MLMs and coaching businesses) people are mentoring on a global basis, I am sure they can advise their recruits/clients on the relevant tax, pensions etc for any country as part of the service they offer.

Actually, dropping the sarcasm and serious question. Bots make a big deal about receiving cheques paid from other countries because of their global teams. Do FL etc help their bots set up reciprocal tax type agreements or would bots be liable to pay tax in the US (for example) as well if they are recruiting a US team. Sorry I don't really know the correct terms or procedure myself just know that a friend who gets US stocks as a work bonus has to sign some sort of tax exemption form every few years to avoid double tax (or something along those lines!)

@terrywynne - FATCA regualtions makes anyone with US connections very complicated indeed. Generally, refer to US tax specialist and step away.
I do not know how the bots received their incomes, or how they are declared.
Would be interesting to know what the logistics are for remitting the income to the uk? Is it classed as UK income? Or income in the country of origin?
If the latter, that is a lot of accounting for a 45 dollar cheque!

@fromdownwest I have seen photos posted off either cheques where the company name is Forever Living xxx (country not the uk). Or emails where the subject is Forever UK bonus recap, Forever Australia bonus recap etc. But yeah no idea what currency is being paid or where the income is classed as earned. And there's the issues of sales to people overseas via your 'shop' (possibly able to count as UK income?) and income earned from a dowlined based overseas.

If were to ever consider an MLM (ha!) I would some very detailed answers on where my income was classed as coming from... And if some of it was overseas it would need to be enough to pay for the tax specialist!

@BotOff looking forward to the juice. Don't keep us in suspense too long

@definitelynotabot - in the year running up to CoVid, Success Days almost stopped being a thing. FLP U.K. was cancelling them for various spurious reasons and 'readjusted' the format.

The main reason being that there were simply not enough bots to make the events the money spinners they once were for the company, that and the fact that a tiny handful of bots walking across the stage being eeeeeeek-ed on by a very small audience is not quite the draw it once was.
If it wasn't for the pandemic, FLP U.K. would be in it's death throes. The bounce will be very short lived though.

@BotOff - you're just teasing us now!

Covid would be a handy excuse for not resuming the Success Days..... " during Covid we went online for Success Days and it was sooooo amazing that we thought we'd continue with that format..." blah blah....

@CompleteBarstool If you look at FLP UK's accounts over recent years, 'Events' was a major money-maker for them. Cancelling them (pre-CoVid) was a major indication of the drop in their recruitment and retention fortunes.
They served a dual purpose - rinsing the bots of any money they had left after being a 'product if the product' and their 'own best customer', as well as a brainwashing "look, one day it will be you walking across a stage with a tacky nylon sash on to the adulation of thousands of screaming huns" incentive.
The numbers are no longer there for it to serve either purpose, so yes, they will find an excuse to drop them.

Yes that’s right
They tried a rejig before the pandemic where they didn’t have the big venue as it would have looked empty, instead they had various ‘pods’ bots could go to during the day
They still had to pay for tickets of course, and all their food and drink, plus hotel rooms if needed
And they could spend more money on merchandising tat
Now the company can’t rinse the bots at these events lol lol lol

[quote Twentytwentyhindsight]@definitelynotabot - in the year running up to CoVid, Success Days almost stopped being a thing. FLP U.K. was cancelling them for various spurious reasons and 'readjusted' the format.

The main reason being that there were simply not enough bots to make the events the money spinners they once were for the company, that and the fact that a tiny handful of bots walking across the stage being eeeeeeek-ed on by a very small audience is not quite the draw it once was.
If it wasn't for the pandemic, FLP U.K. would be in it's death throes. The bounce will be very short lived though.[/quote]
Very very interesting.
I've just had a look at FLP UK accounts - quite a drop in 2019, I wonder what 2020's will show.
Success Days used to be jam packed, over 1000 people etc etc. I wonder what this year will bring when things get back to "normal". As you say, Covid might give a convenient excuse....

@Spongebobette

Yes that’s right They tried a rejig before the pandemic where they didn’t have the big venue as it would have looked empty, instead they had various ‘pods’ bots could go to during the day They still had to pay for tickets of course, and all their food and drink, plus hotel rooms if needed And they could spend more money on merchandising tat Now the company can’t rinse the bots at these events lol lol lol

Presumably why you had to pay to watch the annual bonus event online this year where it was free to watch in previous years. Wonder if they will continue to sell an online ticket even if they hold an in person event again.

Have any of the other MLMs had similar event issues? I'm guessing all the ones that have cruises as there selling point had a bad time on the event front...