Child maintenance

[OneForTheRoadThen]

Hi, my partner and I are in the process of separating. He is not going to be paying any maintenance as he can't afford it and I will be claiming UC for both children as well as working part time.

We've discussed residence and provisionally agreed he will have both children for 2 nights a week and then 1 child for a further night and the other child for another night so basically 1child on Tuesday, 2 children in Weds and Sat and one child on Thursday. He is now saying I owe him maintenance for those days he has them. Is that correct?

@RandomMess

Are you renting too?

Yes but from a family member so my rent is slightly lower than market rates

@Ffsffsffsffsffs we have gone through expenses and after all costs I would still have more income than him even after I've paid childcare. We had tried to come to arrangement that would leave us both with an equal amount of disposable income and this was the closest I could think of.

@UhtredRagnarson love your name btw. Can I put in a claim while he's still living here? We do have separate rooms but still paying bills from the joint account until he finds a place to live.

You are separating- you don't need the same disposable income. What he needs to do is contribute towards his children's upbringing.

It needs to be done officially, what happens if he meets someone else and has another baby in the next few years and he decides he can't contribute at all in any way? Or gets a pay rise and doesn't tell you as he doesn't want to pay more?

If you’re both having the kids roughly 50/50 a week (which it does sound like that’s what’s going on) neither of you owe each other maintenance.

@NerrSnerr yes those are my worries.

Doesn't matter than your income will be more. You'll be doing the majority of the care. He still needs to pay towards his children.

You can also claim up to 80% of the childcare costs on UC I believe.

we have gone through expenses and after all costs I would still have more income than him even after I've paid childcare.

You’re not thinking long term. Your children will grow and have more expenses that he won’t be sharing. The rate at which they go through shoes is shocking! They will also want to join different clubs and have hobbies and all the equipment that goes with that. You will also want to have some in a rainy day fund for school trips, tutors, driving lessons etc. Don’t base your financial agreement with him just on your current circumstances because I guarantee you he will not agree to change it when the DC are costing you more.

@ConfusedAdultFemale

If you’re both having the kids roughly 50/50 a week (which it does sound like that’s what’s going on) neither of you owe each other maintenance.

Is that just based on time though? As he might be having them for 50% of the time but he's not paying towards their costs

@ConfusedAdultFemale

If you’re both having the kids roughly 50/50 a week (which it does sound like that’s what’s going on) neither of you owe each other maintenance.

Eh??

He’s having them 3 nights and paying for nothing. OP is having them 4 nights and paying for everything. Including childcare!

@UhtredRagnarson he says he will pay towards some of the things you mentioned but I'm now seeing I'd be a fool to believe that. It's hard as it's a fairly amicable split and he adores the children so I want to believe the best of him.

he says he will pay towards some of the things you mentioned

I’m sure he does say that. He’ll say whatever it takes to get you to agree to give him money.

@OneForTheRoadThen

Thanks for your responses. To answer some questions and give more info we have 2 children aged 3 and 5. I work part time (24 hours) and he works full time compressed hours so 4 days a week.

I'm starting a course on Monday that will finish when my youngest starts school and should enable me to get a decent paying job but in the meantime I will claim benefits for both children.

He will rent a flat nearby but we are in London zone 5 so after his bills he won't be left with much, less than the maintenance would be whereas I would have a little more than him income wise as my rent is lower plus benefit top ups. I thought it fair therefore that he didn't pay maintenance unless his circumstances changed. I did suggest moving further out but he doesn't drive or moving in with a friend but he doesn't want to.

I wouldn't be able to cover our living expenses if we had 50/50 and he claimed for one child. I suggested we each have one child for one night each as we'd be able to enjoy time with them and also I'd miss them terribly if I couldn't see them for 3 nights a week.

I'll be taking on all childcare payments and the cost of their activities and clothing.

Wow that’s a cushy deal he’s getting! You get ALL the child relate bills and he gets away with paying no maintenance? Forget that!!

If you had the DC 50:50 then you would each pay their costs when they are with you.

The other thing to seriously consider is that you each do claim for one child each, he then pays for the childcare costs for the DC that he claims for and you pay for the one you claim for. You will both then get help with housing costs and childcare costs if you are on low incomes. He pays for clothing etc for the child that he claims for and you for the one you claim for.

Financially this would make more sense probably AND it would be he should have them for additional nights enabling you to study/go out/ sleep etc.

Years ago I had a similar conversation with my ex eg just pay £x as I was fine with lower amount, wanted him to be able to take kids out, have money to treat them, etc. It was just the inch that caused him to take a mile. Any spare he has definitely does not get used for the kids and I had a battle trying to get it through official channels as he did all he could to avoid paying.

I would go through CMS now, they'll review it regularly and can take it straight from his wage if he creates issues.

He is taking the children three nights a week? You owe him nothing unless he has them more nights than you

@RandomMess

If you had the DC 50:50 then you would each pay their costs when they are with you.

The other thing to seriously consider is that you each do claim for one child each, he then pays for the childcare costs for the DC that he claims for and you pay for the one you claim for. You will both then get help with housing costs and childcare costs if you are on low incomes. He pays for clothing etc for the child that he claims for and you for the one you claim for.

Financially this would make more sense probably AND it would be he should have them for additional nights enabling you to study/go out/ sleep etc.

Yes thanks that is something to look at, I will do those calculations and see what it comes out as. I don't think he'd get any benefits as he is on a good wage (£34k) it's just rents are so expensive in outer London. I'm the low earner but I'm doing a CIPD course which should enable me to get a career in about 18 months.

He's only having each child 2 nights out of 7.

Do the CMS calculator.

[quote OneForTheRoadThen]@Ffsffsffsffsffs we have gone through expenses and after all costs I would still have more income than him even after I've paid childcare. We had tried to come to arrangement that would leave us both with an equal amount of disposable income and this was the closest I could think of.[/quote]
I realise that you are trying to do what you think is most fair here. But what you've said here is something a couple will do, in a relationship.

It doesn't matter how much either of you has left, it doesn't matter what each others expenses are. You are two seperate entities now, and need to do whats best for you, and therefore the DC. Just because you might end up with more disposable income at the end of the month, it doesnt matter - you're not in a relationship any more. How much money he has/doesn't have, doesn't matter, that's on him to improve his own situation. You don't have to take care of his needs any more. Your only responsibility is to yourself, and the DC.

Have you got a proper tenancy in place as you mentioned renting from a family member
It is possible to rent from a family member and get benefits to cover the rent but they may scrutinise the tenancy to make sure it’s not contrived.
I wouldn’t let him have the CB for one child
Put in a claim for UC keep the CB for both kids and put in a claim for CM
He sounds like he is going to be a dick so you might as well get the money for the kids while you can

Maintenance isn't calculated after costs, its calculated based on income. Because caring for children is pretty much the highest priority financial responsibility, and all other costs should be adjusted to allow for that. He doesnt want to share a home with a friend - what he is basically saying is he doesn't want to put the needs of the kids first, and his own wants second. He needs to be housed, but that doesn't need to be in his own place paying sky high rent, that is a want, not a need. He needs to pay for his kids, that is non optional.

@BJHair

Have you got a proper tenancy in place as you mentioned renting from a family member It is possible to rent from a family member and get benefits to cover the rent but they may scrutinise the tenancy to make sure it’s not contrived. I wouldn’t let him have the CB for one child Put in a claim for UC keep the CB for both kids and put in a claim for CM He sounds like he is going to be a dick so you might as well get the money for the kids while you can

Yes I do have a proper tenancy - an official tenancy agreement that has been signed by both parties.

@wornkiwi yes you're right. I'm doing this as I'm starting a CIPD course next week as well as working part time to try and improve me and the children's situation. I'm excited but also realise the next 18 months will be hard work. I told him he needs to look for a better paying job or a promotion but he doesn't seem to see the urgency.

@RandomMess

If you had the DC 50:50 then you would each pay their costs when they are with you.

The other thing to seriously consider is that you each do claim for one child each, he then pays for the childcare costs for the DC that he claims for and you pay for the one you claim for. You will both then get help with housing costs and childcare costs if you are on low incomes. He pays for clothing etc for the child that he claims for and you for the one you claim for.

Financially this would make more sense probably AND it would be he should have them for additional nights enabling you to study/go out/ sleep etc.

This is only a good idea if you think he would do a good job of buying all the clothes, he would pay childcare with no hassling. Plus it could be a source of contention between the dc- ‘well daddy buys my clothes!’ But he earns more, he’s chosen his flat and decided how much he needs for bills, he’s set that he will have each dc 3 nights, you’re having all the rest, paying childcare on less money, and... he wants you to pay him?? Jog on. Don’t let him claim cb, sounds like a road to misery.

[quote OneForTheRoadThen]@wornkiwi yes you're right. I'm doing this as I'm starting a CIPD course next week as well as working part time to try and improve me and the children's situation. I'm excited but also realise the next 18 months will be hard work. I told him he needs to look for a better paying job or a promotion but he doesn't seem to see the urgency. [/quote]
You're taking some wonderful steps for you and the DC. The next 18 months will most definitely be worth it. I hope you're proud of the steps you've already taken here, they're huge.

I can assure you, once he realises that he will have to adapt/make sacrifices, he will start to see the urgency in improving his own situation. But that's on him. His issue. You don't have to worry about it any more.

You focus on your course, and your wonderful DC. I know how hard it is to just stop worrying about the other party, I have been where you are, but it gets easier. I promise.