Does it seem fair to you- money

[Namechangesensitivemoney]

Hi just wondered what others thought about this. DH thinks it is unfair the way our money is divided, I think it is OK.

We have separate accounts, I have long term health conditions and get PIP and cont based ESA. In total about £800 a month along with child benefit of £140 (two DC)

The mortgage is paid off and the main bills and council tax are around £500 a month. He pays this.

I pay for food shopping and any health / dental plans, DC school lunches etc from my account - around £500 a month at least.

He earns quite a bit more than me, however he rents a premises for his self employment which is about £500 a month.

Anyway this weekend he has been complaining I don't contribute enough.

@RandomMess

Well there isn't clarity who pays for cars, MOT, house repairs, annual costs such as insurance, Christmas and birthday presents, holidays, savings?? Or does £500 cover all of that too?

What's fair is having equal cash to spend frivolously each month enter that's £20 each or £500 each.

He's self employed and mainly uses the car for work, so stuff related to that is a business expense. Same with travel for work...

Pip - £238 a month?
Is the ESA contrib absolute maximum £73 a week so £315 a month

How does this equal £800? Or does this include CB?

Unless you’re in support group esa £111 a week?

It's quite a bit when there is no mortgage, after around £500 for monthly bills that is over 1K left...

OK, so out of that £1,600 he pays £500 of day to day bills. And then (to make it equal) let's allocate £400 spends to him to match yours, that leaves £700.

That £700 has to cover all savings, all pension contributions, all holidays, all repairs, all home and garden maintenance, replacement and maintenance of car, boiler repairs/replacements, redecoration costs, replacement appliances, budget for Christmas etc. I can see how he'd struggle. And it would be really stressful having to be the only one responsible for the family with such a small amount to juggle.

As a guide, we have £800 per month "family spends" which covers incidentals needed, minor repairs and maintenance, kids days out, new appliances, kids pocket money, mobiles, passport renewals, haircuts, takeaways, meals and days out and just general things that we need cash for day to day. We also save £200 a month towards holidays, and £150 per month towards birthdays and Christmas. We also put away £300 a month to budget towards major household repairs (so new kitchen/bathroom etc), and £300 a month towards car costs and repairs and replacement cars. So even then, over and above the food shopping and the basic bills we're looking at £1750 per month before we're even considering pensions and long term savings or allocating personal spends.

Our income is more than yours, and I think we have more responsibilities, so it'll likely cost us more, but no way could we afford to have £400 a month each unencumbered "personal spends".

I think, because you are not responsible for them, you are blissfully unaware of many of the costs of maintaining a house, car and family, and you aren't recognising how many demands he has on his money.

Once again, I'd suggest that pooling all income, and then taking a set amount of spends each, and both taking responsibility for managing the savings/house repairs/maintenance/holidays etc is a much, much fairer way of doing it. I personally like lots of separate pots for different kinds of spends, as it really helps to budget for long term things such as updating kitchens/bathrooms/cars etc, which can be expenses which become invisible otherwise.

So is he basically just whinging that because your work is the bulk of the parenting and house related stuff and doing as much as you can within the limits of your disability makes you not as worthy as to have as much money as him???

Because if that's his attitude he needs to be reminded that a nanny and housekeeper would cost him nearly every penny he earns...

What is he spending "his" spare £1k per month on?

Our income is slightly more and our mortgage £100, we certainly don't have £800 spare to have has spends tbh unless we stopped having savings. We already don't go on holiday.

Council Tax & utilities & phones is best part of £500 per month
Plus:
Life insurance x 2
Dog insurance
DC pocket money
DC hobbies
Private physio
Charitable donation
There is probably more tbh

Then there are monthly one off costs:
Birthdays
Christmas
New washing machine - £490
Needing to redecorate or repair something.
Hair cuts
Dentists
Opticians (varifocals were £400)

We are pretty prudent and we have savings but our personal expenditure probably averages at £200 per month including weekends away, socialising etc
If he drinks or smokes that's a huge amount of £ gone quickly.

@RandomMess

So is he basically just whinging that because your work is the bulk of the parenting and house related stuff and doing as much as you can within the limits of your disability makes you not as worthy as to have as much money as him???

Because if that's his attitude he needs to be reminded that a nanny and housekeeper would cost him nearly every penny he earns...

What is he spending "his" spare £1k per month on?

His spare money after having allocated himself equal spends to the OP would be about £700 a month. And it appears that he is fully responsible for all repairs/household maintenance/savings/pensions /holidays/days out etc. Everything from replacing the washing machine to new kitchens/windows /bathrooms etc. OP doesn't seem to pay anything at all towards that, or see that she has any responsibility towards it.

I very much doubt he has anything like £400 pm left to spend on himself. He has much more money passing through his account, but pretty much all of the financial responsibilities. He is carrying the financial "mental load" alone. It is most likely that which is his problem, rather than the actual £ amount involved.

@Lentillover1900

Unless you’re in support group esa £111 a week?

Yes.

@mrsm43s I'm trying to find out what the op thinks is the issue, she hasn't reported what her DH has actually said or what the household costs are?

I am very lucky we have similar attitudes to being careful with money and full transparency all income and expenditure. TBH I handle all the finances but we both have access to the joint account so DH can look if he wants.

It was always our money regardless of who earned what 🤷🏽‍♀️ for years we had very little and it still didn't cause an issue. Still getting used to splashing out tbh.

@RandomMess

Our income is slightly more and our mortgage £100, we certainly don't have £800 spare to have has spends tbh unless we stopped having savings. We already don't go on holiday.

Council Tax & utilities & phones is best part of £500 per month
Plus:
Life insurance x 2
Dog insurance
DC pocket money
DC hobbies
Private physio
Charitable donation
There is probably more tbh

Then there are monthly one off costs:
Birthdays
Christmas
New washing machine - £490
Needing to redecorate or repair something.
Hair cuts
Dentists
Opticians (varifocals were £400)

We are pretty prudent and we have savings but our personal expenditure probably averages at £200 per month including weekends away, socialising etc
If he drinks or smokes that's a huge amount of £ gone quickly.

Quite. And yet OP wants £800 a month in personal spends (£400 each) before family spends. And they do have holidays, which he pays for.

That's my point.
There's a lot more than food costs and utilities to account for in running a family and a home.

Their combined take home income is not high, and yet she wants to take £400 a month personal spends (and have a high shopping budget of £500 month).

I don't think OP is being greedy or grabby. I just think she doesn't understand the costs of family life, and presumes her husband has far more disposable than he does because she's not taking into account any form of budgeting or savings or household maintenance or long term repairs.

We just have a simple flat, not many of the above long list of things, live quite simply to be honest. He possibly spends too much on booze (likes nice wines).

Anyway thanks for the thoughts, interesting to read the different perspectives.

she wants to take £400 a month personal spends (and have a high shopping budget of £500 month)

Not sure it's this simple to be honest- the shopping probably comes to a bit more (two teens eat quite a bit) I spend a lot on Parentpay with the dinners and trips etc, music lessons, general day to day spending with the DC and their phone bills etc, we don't account for everything and as I mentioned dental and health insurance for the family as well, toiletries etc etc.

I definitely don't have £400 in extra 'speninding money' left each month. I have swimming membership which is cheap due to PIP, we rarely eat out etc. Anyway enough of justifying myself, PIP is to help with medical costs as well and I need to buy certain things due to that, maybe some are forgetting that perhaps.

Bear in mind OP that or your area is moved access to uc you will revive the equivalent to esa support, which lwrca, which is circa £330 a month

@Lentillover1900

Bear in mind OP that or your area is moved access to uc you will revive the equivalent to esa support, which lwrca, which is circa £330 a month

As I understand it cont based ESA is not affected with UC it stays the same. It is different for income related.

If you have a flat do you have ground rent, lease, maintenance costs for that?

Holidays are £££££££ as are nice wines!

I suppose I would want to know from him what is driving his unhappiness/claims of unfairness. Is it because you don't go out to work, or he likes spending money and wishes he has more? If he buys lunches daily he will burning through money.

What would he like to spend money on that he can't afford to?

You can't ever judge without having full transparency.

Sorry it is being called 'new style ESA' or something, but it is instead of UC, www.gov.uk/guidance/new-style-employment-and-support-allowance

Is he aware how much you spend on the DC monthly?

My youngest 2 are teens still in education - it's scary how easy it is to burn though £

@RandomMess

If you have a flat do you have ground rent, lease, maintenance costs for that?

Holidays are £££££££ as are nice wines!

I suppose I would want to know from him what is driving his unhappiness/claims of unfairness. Is it because you don't go out to work, or he likes spending money and wishes he has more? If he buys lunches daily he will burning through money.

What would he like to spend money on that he can't afford to?

You can't ever judge without having full transparency.

I think he just wants to go on holidays etc more than me, he likes skiing for example. Also thinking of the future as he is older than me, maybe he worries about that is his pension isn't that big? Uni costs etc.

@RandomMess

Is he aware how much you spend on the DC monthly?

My youngest 2 are teens still in education - it's scary how easy it is to burn though £

Yes I have mentioned it and encouraged him to look on Parentpay at the totals, it does add up more as they get older I agree. Uniforms were around £5-600 for both now at secondary this year for example.

I think your split seems fair.
What I would be most concerned with is why all of a sudden he’s saying you’re not paying enough? What’s going on there...

So he wants a lifestyle that collective you can't afford.

You could offer to sit and go through finances together to see where cut backs could be made so he could save up for a skiing trip for him or something?

I think it would be good for you to have a proper discussion with all the numbers so you both look at where all the money goes? If he can save money by buying less wine/lunches/cheaper mobile phone/other fripperies then it may be doable?

It may be that looking through the finances properly he can see that it's just not affordable.

@GirlInterruptedAgain

I think your split seems fair. What I would be most concerned with is why all of a sudden he’s saying you’re not paying enough? What’s going on there...

Possibly as I did pay a bit towards the mortgage but that is paid off now, so I have a little more each month. I think underlying it he worries about me being reliant on benefits and is traditionally a bit 'anti benefits' as are his family, it being seen as a negative to claim them even if they are NI / health related ones. Also maybe a little envious that he feels I have all this 'time' (it can take ages to do housework so not really) and is lacking in understanding about how my health impacts me at times (an 'invisible illness') anyway those are other issues

Thanks for the replies and it is all helpful

Who does most of the childcare, OP? If it's you, this should count towards your "contribution".

Flats still have kitchens/bathrooms/boilers/washing machines/other appliances and need repairs, maintenance and redecoration!

But overall, it sounds like neither of you understand exactly what costs and commitments the other has.

He's right to want to put money aside for old age/pension and uni costs. These are huge, and the responsibility currently all rests on him.

I suspect neither of you are being unreasonable, but both of you feel hard done by because you don't understand how much the other one has to pay for.

If you now don't have to pay for a mortgage, I do think its reasonable for that extra money to go towards stuff like pensions/savings/uni costs if these haven't already been covered off. It seems very sensible. Fine wines and skiing holidays also need to come after provision has been made for savings/uni etc (but an amount each for personal spends for treats is obviously reasonable).

I think the two of you need to get together with a spreadsheet and account for ALL of your costs. Day to day, budgeting and long term planning, and including all the children's costs etc. Then communicate as a couple and map out where all your income needs to go to cover all necessary costs, and what your joint priorities are with any surplus funds remaining. A split between "spends" to make life now good, and long term savings to keep you comfortable in future is the balance you need to find.

I think resentment has built up, because you're not communicating and working as a team, but you both seem like reasonable people who want to prioritise stuff for the family.

I think a fundamental problem is neither of you having a clear idea of income and expenditure.

When asked, you said he earned £40K, but later that became “about” £20K take home. Obviously with the company premises and car it’s not surprising that the £40K drops more than a simple taxed salary would.

I think you need to take it back to basics and work out incomings and outgoings. Without that, who knows that’s fair?