Does it seem fair to you- money

[Namechangesensitivemoney]

Hi just wondered what others thought about this. DH thinks it is unfair the way our money is divided, I think it is OK.

We have separate accounts, I have long term health conditions and get PIP and cont based ESA. In total about £800 a month along with child benefit of £140 (two DC)

The mortgage is paid off and the main bills and council tax are around £500 a month. He pays this.

I pay for food shopping and any health / dental plans, DC school lunches etc from my account - around £500 a month at least.

He earns quite a bit more than me, however he rents a premises for his self employment which is about £500 a month.

Anyway this weekend he has been complaining I don't contribute enough.

@BarbaraofSeville

How are housework and childcare split? If you're doing a lot of this, it should be recognised as a contribution to the household.

Although if your health conditions prevent you from housework/childcare, this should be accounted for.

Agree that you should have the same amount of personal spending money, although if you need taxis, for example due to health issues, this is a household not a personal discretionary cost.

I do most of this

@Apileofballyhoo

How did you pay off the mortgage? Or did one of you inherit? Just curious as to who paid for your home.

You absolutely both should have the same amount of personal spending money each month.

It was small as from the 90s

I contributed more while the mortgage was being paid

Thought maybe he had lingering resentment about the house. He can hardly complain, anyway. Is he bringing in less or something and he's worried?

@mrsm43s

Who pays for car/petrol, holidays, meals out, clothes, mobile phones, house repairs, school trips, music lessons, Christmas and birthday budget, new washing machine, new carpets, boiler repairs, long terms savings, pensions, kids activities, days out, pets/vet bills, life insurance, school transport etc? Do you always expect him to pay for everything bar food/dental plan?

On the face of it, you personally actually have quite a large amount of disposable income (£400+ per month) plus very few responsibilities. It may not be about the actual amount of money per se, but about the fact that he has to always be responsible for finding the money for everything. To him it might seem like his money is "family money" to be spent on everything needed for the family, and your money is mostly your own pocket money for you to spend without having to worry. It might make it easier to arrange money differently. All money into one joint account, and then say £200 a month each into your own "personal spends" accounts. Everything else sent by DD to bills account/savings account/tax account/groceries account etc so its easier to see that the majority of money is "family money" and you have equal "spends". You can then both take equal responsibility for budgeting and dealing with savings/large bills and repairs. No-one then gets stressed if the washing machine packs in etc as there is joint money saved to deal with it.

I wouldn't expect a family with one person on £40k and one on disability benefits to be able to afford for any one person to have £400 per month as personal spends, although I guess being mortgage free may make that more possible.

Who pays for car/petrol, holidays, meals out, clothes, mobile phones, house repairs, school trips, music lessons, Christmas and birthday budget, new washing machine, new carpets, boiler repairs, long terms savings, pensions, kids activities, days out, pets/vet bills, life insurance, school transport etc? Do you always expect him to pay for everything bar food/dental plan?

I tend to pay for stuff for the DC such as uniforms, clothing etc and shoes, (but he does sometimes) we don't have pets, the DC walk to school and activities free at their school (secondary) I also pay for school dinners - so No to the question.

*On the face of it, you personally actually have quite a large amount of disposable income (£400+ per month) plus very few responsibilities. It may not be about the actual amount of money per se, but about the fact that he has to always be responsible for finding the money for everything. To him it might seem like his money is "family money" to be spent on everything needed for the family, and your money is mostly your own pocket money for you to spend without having to worry. It might make it easier to arrange money differently. All money into one joint account, and then say £200 a month each into your own "personal spends" accounts. Everything else sent by DD to bills account/savings account/tax account/groceries account etc so its easier to see that the majority of money is "family money" and you have equal "spends". You can then both take equal responsibility for budgeting and dealing with savings/large bills and repairs. No-one then gets stressed if the washing machine packs in etc as there is joint money saved to deal with it.

I wouldn't expect a family with one person on £40k and one on disability benefits to be able to afford for any one person to have £400 per month as personal spends, although I guess being mortgage free may make that more possible*

I'm not sure why you seem to think it is only me having some money extra each month when he earns much more?

@Apileofballyhoo

Thought maybe he had lingering resentment about the house. He can hardly complain, anyway. Is he bringing in less or something and he's worried?

He did pretty well with that- was a small mortgage, then he had an endowment which paid him a small lump sum so paid of any credit cards (his) - possibly but overwhelming feeling is one of relief I think

@Namechangesensitivemoney

*On the face of it, you personally actually have quite a large amount of disposable income (£400+ per month) plus very few responsibilities. It may not be about the actual amount of money per se, but about the fact that he has to always be responsible for finding the money for everything. To him it might seem like his money is "family money" to be spent on everything needed for the family, and your money is mostly your own pocket money for you to spend without having to worry. It might make it easier to arrange money differently. All money into one joint account, and then say £200 a month each into your own "personal spends" accounts. Everything else sent by DD to bills account/savings account/tax account/groceries account etc so its easier to see that the majority of money is "family money" and you have equal "spends". You can then both take equal responsibility for budgeting and dealing with savings/large bills and repairs. No-one then gets stressed if the washing machine packs in etc as there is joint money saved to deal with it.

I wouldn't expect a family with one person on £40k and one on disability benefits to be able to afford for any one person to have £400 per month as personal spends, although I guess being mortgage free may make that more possible*

I'm not sure why you seem to think it is only me having some money extra each month when he earns much more?

Sorry for the late reply, I've been off having dinner etc.

In our household, the biggest expenses by far (apart from school fees which I assume you don't have) since we are also mortgage free are the the things that I'd listed, that you hadn't mentioned who was covering. We don't have anything like £400 per person personal spends despite a considerably larger income, and I would suggest if he is regularly paying into pensions, maintaining the house and the car(s), paying for fuel and all the other stuff that I mentioned above, then he will have basically very little left from a £40k gross income. No way could all that be paid for in £500 a month - that's basic CT/utilities etc only really, and doesn't look at the bigger one off expenses or any kind of preparation for the future.

I think you assume he has a much bigger amount of "spends" than you, but if he's having to pay for all of the family expenses bar food/healthcare on a £40K income, he likely doesn't have anything like as much left as you think. I know you have now clarified that you pay school uniform/shoes etc too, but these aren't the big expenses.

Who pays to replace the washing machine/dryer/oven when it breaks down?

Who pays to fix the boiler when in breaks down?

Who buys the car(s) and pays for car insurance/car repairs?

Who pays into pensions for you both?

Who pays into regular savings for the family?

Who pays for new kitchens/bathrooms?

Who pays for holidays and days out?

Who pays for maintenance and redecoration of house and garden?

Does he carry the financial "mental load"? The things listed above probably need about £1000 a month at least to budget for, somewhat more if you want decent pensions, family holidays etc...

I really think pooling income and then equal personal spends is the way to go, as it shares the burden and responsibility equally. You may well end up with more personal spends, but I think you might be surprised at how many costs there are over and above simple utilities.

Of course he might just be being tight, and squirrelling away thousands in his own name and leaving the house to fall into disrepair and not savings for the future or saving into pensions - I don't know!

mrsm43s ah, yes I see what you mean...maybe that is a plan for a way forward. Thanks

You need to do a spreadsheet of all expenses. If you are the one who ends up paying for uniforms, kids shoes, Christmas/birthdays, it might be that over the year you pay a lot more than you think. Similarly him paying for holidays might be tipping the scales too much.

@jay55

You need to do a spreadsheet of all expenses. If you are the one who ends up paying for uniforms, kids shoes, Christmas/birthdays, it might be that over the year you pay a lot more than you think. Similarly him paying for holidays might be tipping the scales too much.

Thanks yes might be an idea.

So if you're doing most of the childcare, cleaning, laundry, organising etc, that benefits him whether or not he thinks it does, so needs to be taken into consideration when deciding whether or not you contribute enough.

If he had to spend time doing laundry, running DC around, cooking, cleaning etc etc it would directly impact his ability to earn a living, so it is a worthwhile contribution to the household.

Would it help with the money situation if all money went into one account, which paid for all joint costs relating to the house and children so there's less of his money/your money and what each of you pay for?

Leave most of the money in the joint pot for joint costs only - you decide whether or not you separate any out for medium/long term expenses, because it's barely worth it for the interest on savings these days.

Then both of you take an equal amount, whatever is affordable for your own personal costs and put this in a separate account.

I'm also feeling a bit resentful because he had this lump sum from the endowment, think he used that to pay off his charge card- I have some on a card too which I am paying back (0% interest card) I don't want to mention this as he is quite sensitive about any debt as his parents had arguments about it growing up. So anyway that is something I'd rather just deal with myself really.

We also put everything into a single pot but have separate spends accounts that get an equal monthly payment. Over time we’ve both had phases of putting more in the central pot and it will change again as we hit retirement.

To me, having been in a mildly financially abusive first marriage, sharing money equally is a crucial part of our marital glue. And I say that as the person who put in 2x as much as him for much of our marriage.

Write down every monthly and annual expense, add it all up and contribute proportionally according to your income so you are both left with equal spending money each month.

Mine and DHs income has fluctuated wildly over the years but we have just varied our contributions accordingly. If you looked closely you could say DH pays the mortgage and bills, i pay for Christmas and holidays but ultimately as a married couple, all our money is joint.

There are frequently threads like this OP and it always seems to me that where there isn't a joint account to fund the family, these issues arise over time.

Whilst I can appreciate that having to work fulltime and be the main bread winner must be stressful, I think as ususal the role of the sahp (normally the woman) is minimised and forgotten. The majority of men are only able to do the jobs they do and have a family life because the woman does all the work at home, keeping things running. At first they like this but over time resentment seems to build, they see little value in this and think that as they are working hard they should have lots of 'spends'.

I think the conversation is about 'having a family' and about putting in/contributing isn't just about money. Sit him down and go through all the finances then ask him why he thinks he should have more disposable than you? BTW are you contributing to your pension?

Hang on, he earns £40k annually and you earn (including child benefit) £11,280 annually but you both pay out £500 each month? He can’t include his business expenses in family expenses, so the rent he pays is irrelevant. That’s wildly unbalanced.

I’d guess he resents having to work X hours per week for his salary and, because there’s no likelihood of you earning more, there’s no freedom for him to work less, retrain, take a sabbatical, etc. But if that’s the case he’s overlooking the mental and chore load of running a household; he perhaps sees himself as the only one contributing because he works, and fails to see that family life involves more than bringing in money (important though that is). But if you were to stop doing cleaning, cooking, packing school bags, keeping track of everything, he’d very soon notice that his ability to work is predicated on having a partner taking a load off his mind.

Perhaps you both need to reframe your lives and circumstances and see it as incredibly fortunate to be mortgage-free with one income much higher than the national average, and one person able to take on the load of family life while still bringing in money.

Absolutely a full and frank discussions about ALL finances including your debt as it still needs to be paid off!!

Perhaps he is earning less from the business than you think?

If neither of you have clarity of all the finances then it's easy to walk back into debt. Are you sure he hasn't built up debt again?

I suppose the answer is that you don't know.

Absolutely yes yes yes to a spreadsheet of ALL costs including debt repayments. You both need to agree savings and budgets and "frivolous spending money".

If you are mortgage free how come either of you had debt? How are your pensions and savings?

I think you need to establish what he actually earns, you mention 40k but then talk about spending for business premises implying this comes from the 40k, in which case he isn't earning 40k. It sounds possible that he's actually earning less than you think.

@Olga83

I think you need to establish what he actually earns, you mention 40k but then talk about spending for business premises implying this comes from the 40k, in which case he isn't earning 40k. It sounds possible that he's actually earning less than you think.

I agree with this.

There's a big difference between takings of £40k out of which all business expenses, liabilities and tax needs to be paid, and a take home of £40k pa. A very, very big difference.

@2021Vision

There are frequently threads like this OP and it always seems to me that where there isn't a joint account to fund the family, these issues arise over time.

Whilst I can appreciate that having to work fulltime and be the main bread winner must be stressful, I think as ususal the role of the sahp (normally the woman) is minimised and forgotten. The majority of men are only able to do the jobs they do and have a family life because the woman does all the work at home, keeping things running. At first they like this but over time resentment seems to build, they see little value in this and think that as they are working hard they should have lots of 'spends'.

I think the conversation is about 'having a family' and about putting in/contributing isn't just about money. Sit him down and go through all the finances then ask him why he thinks he should have more disposable than you? BTW are you contributing to your pension?

Yes I agree. He has a pension (will be able to take some from it soon as in his 50s) I don't, but should qualify for my own state pension as have enough contributing years. However we do plan to perhaps use some money from his pension towards a small buy to let home which would benefit us both, in the future. I do agree on the undervaluing of the household work.

@Olga83

I think you need to establish what he actually earns, you mention 40k but then talk about spending for business premises implying this comes from the 40k, in which case he isn't earning 40k. It sounds possible that he's actually earning less than you think.

After tax he told me take home pay was around 20K

Well £1,600 to pay for everything else isn't a huge sum.

It just sounds like you need to work together and look at all costs for a whole year. If you can agree to have equal "pocket money" and what it covers then having a joint account for the rest of the income and all family expenditure is actually the fairest and easiest.

It's never great if one person pays for x and the other a b c because assumptions are made by both and resentments form.

@RandomMess

Well £1,600 to pay for everything else isn't a huge sum.

It just sounds like you need to work together and look at all costs for a whole year. If you can agree to have equal "pocket money" and what it covers then having a joint account for the rest of the income and all family expenditure is actually the fairest and easiest.

It's never great if one person pays for x and the other a b c because assumptions are made by both and resentments form.

It's quite a bit when there is no mortgage, after around £500 for monthly bills that is over 1K left...

Well there isn't clarity who pays for cars, MOT, house repairs, annual costs such as insurance, Christmas and birthday presents, holidays, savings?? Or does £500 cover all of that too?

What's fair is having equal cash to spend frivolously each month enter that's £20 each or £500 each.