Carehome taking all the money

[Pugsrus]

At the minute we are using her personal money to pay the care home fees ,yet other residents are getting it for free .
It seems very unfair we now have to sell the house,so we will be paying Well over £250,000 in care home fees ..how is this fair .she saved for years to pass the money on to her grandchildren.
Is there anything we can do

In Scotland and Wales it's very low fees. They also get free prescriptions.

It's her money and doesn't belong to her heirs until she is dead. Meanwhile someone has to pay for her care, and why shouldn't she pay for herself? Before she was in a home, did you resent the money she spent on nice food, or heating, or holidays? Because after all, that money could have been passed down to her heirs instead.

Basically you're wanting taxpayers, who may be very badly off themselves, to fund your inheritance

I’m sorry you’re getting a hard time. I agree it feels unfair. If you start with nothing you get it all for free, if you start with something you get it all taken away to pay for what everyone else is getting for free.

@covidco

SuzetteCrepe my advice re refusing to pay was not aimed at the OP but at Newschapter. You are right there, if it isn't their money or assets, they cannot not pay.

Newschapter that's a shame. Some of the best care homes in our area are the ones with no top up! Some of don't look the prettiest but the care is good and the number of safeguarding referrals received from them low. Which is generally what I judge by (seeing as that is where I get my info from).

I wouldn't judge the quality of care by number of safeguarding referrals.. I got forced out of a care home for being a whistle blower. Reported issues to team leader, home manager, and regional manager. Was promised at each step they would refer it on (as very large safeguarding issues and abuse were occurring). Contacted the council safeguarding and adult social care teams repeatedly over the preceding 12 months, not a single issue had been raised or safeguarding referral made. It was brushed under the carpet and absolutely nothing was done. I actually bumped into a ex coworker a few years later who was working in retail who said they'd left a year after I did as the abuse and safeguarding concerns had gotten worse and absolutely nothing was being done and it wasnt being referred to the correct authorities.

I would actually feel more comfortable about a home that had a few minor referrals as it proves they are being proactive will dealing with issues (as they are bound to arise as not everyone hired as a carer will be suited to the job, likewise things that cant be predicted happen).

Another option, which we did for my grandmother, is to rent out the house to pay for the care.

This is an excellent idea and probably the only useful response to this post.

If "it's not fair" that some carehome residents are cared for for free, how is it fair that you or your children pocket the money you have done nothing to earn?

If you'd like to live in a society where nobody gets anything for free you'll need to move to a country without a welfare or social state.

It's funny how so many people think that other people should pay their way, but they should get something for nothing in the form of an inheritance. The same people are usually happy to receive free or subsidised healthcare from the NHS or equivalent, state help with childcare, not to pay for private education for their children or refund the state for free education they received themselves (after all "it's not fair" that some people have no children and were homeschooled or privately educated but have to pay the portion of tax which covers other people's education), and to expect state benefits if they loose their job or fall on difficult times.

People who complain about those who need state help in the form of receiving free at the point of use care in care homes had better be paying for absolutely everything they use and not benefitting from anything subsidised by other tax payers at any point in their lifecycle...

Otherwise, if you want to live in a civilized society and benefit from a fairly educated population, usable infrastructure, healthcare and a social safety net if you need it, and not having to look after your high care needs elderly relatives yourself then accept that what goes around comes around. Fair is that people contribute when they can but are looked after when they have nothing to contribute. Not that adult children and grandchildren get lump sum windfalls for absolutely no effort at the taxpayer's expense.

This is why money and assets should be transferred over years before it gets to this stage, instead of clinging onto it until the bitter end. Also avoids all arguments regarding wills and inheritance

A couple of my friends parents (all in their late 70’s and early 80’s) have been gradually paying money each year to their children and grand children to prevent this. My closest friends parents just gave her a lump sum and said that they get to enjoy see her spend it and helping her and they know there won’t be any arguments with other family members as they can intervene and make it clear what their wishes are.

I agree that arguments about wills and inheritance break up families after the parents die in many cases.

Are people suggesting parents sell their houses when their eldest child leaves home, split the money between the children equally and rent somewhere, so as to benefit from housing benefit at some point before getting a free care home perhaps?

The thing is most people want it all ways. They want to stay in thier morgage free "forever home" until the last possible moment, which is fair enough on its own, but they then want to be able to leave the house to their children or grandchildren (only after they die) and receive free health and social care including a free care home place whilst retaining a house they don't live in.

For those who can save then surely its better if they plan and save some mobey for their future care rather than give away all their money and assets to their family. Who do they think should pay for their care if they later choose to go into a carehome. Its very different choosing to move into a carehome when perhaps your care needs are very low than eedibg full on 24hr nursibg.

@Greaterthanthesumoftheparts I'm really surprised you were able to meet care home fees on house rental income and a pension. I will assume either that there was a private pension. Or that care home fees are low or rent high where you live .

Eg my mum's care home fees £950 per week but we would have been lucky to have got that per month on house rental .

SuzetteCrepe people want something for free even though they could save up to pay for it.

Perhaps the same people would secretly like to get free food at the foodbank rather than buy thier own, so as to put their average salary into savings for their heirs.

Yep. Everyone loves a freebie. Mind you if you inherit too much you'll end up paying IHT anyway.

Why wouldn’t people pay for their own care? We have a huge ageing population, inheritance isn’t a right.
I think the bigger issue is why is care sooo expensive, the numbers make me weep

There should be at least one registered nurse on about 12 pounds per hour and 3 lower paid care assistants on about 8 pounds per hour to every 24 or so residents.

That's about 240 pounds per week per resident in wages just for the carers.
Then you need to pay the cleaners, the cooks, the care taker, the office and management staff. Then obviously employing people costs more than just wages - employers' National insurance and pension contributions, indemnity insurance and so on.

Then there are actual food costs and heating, lights, electricity, all the other usual bills and council and business taxes, wear and tear on the building, a mortgage on the care home itself possibly...

900 pounds per week is only 5 pounds per hour.

The amounts are high if you're watching money you want to keep as an inheritance burn away, but not that high per hour if the resident cannot live alone and needs someone on call 24 hours per day... Especially if they need personal and nursing care.

When you break it down to a daily rate it doesnt seem so high when you're getting all your bills, food, drinks, activities, laundry etc. Included and if you have high nursing needs you can get a contribution for that and dont private residents still keep attendance allowance and pension which all goes towards the fees. I wouldnt object to paying towards genuine people at all but I dont see why I should help pay for someone who hasnt planned for their future care just so their family inherit less. Who usually complains about the fees? the residents or the family?

SuzetteCrepe going into a care home is often a real life crisis moment for the resident partly because they feel they should leave thier adult children money. They do often feel guilt at having the money spent on their care. Obviously this is worse where their adult relatives already see their elderly relative's house as thier inheritance money and by griping about costs make the elderly person feel shame and guilt.

thatsnotgoingtowork thanks for breaking down the costs. Any idea how many residents in a care home- because when I hear £2k plus a wk I still don’t get it. It’s not like there’s an admin person per resident, apart from bedrooms they share rooms that are lighted and heated.

I understand that. Maybe its best not to expect to inherit anything.

I’m sorry but everyone over the age of 18 is obliged to provide for themselves. We as a society foot the bill for those who can’t because we’re not barbarians, not because it’s our responsibility. Your entitlement is an illustration of why our welfare system doesn’t work. You’re a CF asking us to pay for her care so that you can get an inheritance.

I think a better way to think of this is that your grandmother is spending her own money. No one is taking her money, she is using her own money to look after herself. No one is entitled to an inheritance.

The good thing about being a self funder is that you have choice. That is something that those who are reliant on financial help from the state certainly do not have. In my area, no one can simply just choose to go in a home and the local authority will pay. Including those who are bed bound and with no mobility. There are multiple 'hoops' that have to jumped through in order to access residential care, which can take months (& more). If they are found eligible, then as other posters have pointed out, their income is assessed and all of it, bar some spending money, pays towards their care - it certainly is not free for anyone. I despair at those who think putting the house in their kids name is a sensible thing to do, I can all but guarantee that you're setting yourselves and children up for an incredibly stressful time in the future if residential care is needed.

Self funders where I live dont always get the home they choose until a vacancy comes up.

To my knowledge it’s not a case of who pays and who doesn’t. It’s probably which Care home at the time has space available. Everybody will be paying the same rate and the government will get the money either way.
Unless it’s your own relative how would you know who pays and who doesn’t? Most people will run out of money at some people anyway.

OnlyFoolsnMothers most care homes should provide self funders a breakdown on request.

I guess it would always be expensive to live full board anywhere, before you take the actual care into account.

I didn't resent my father paying for his care. He was in a lovely place with very caring staff.

But I bitterly resent the fact he was subsidising the council funded people because they had a limit in what the council would pay. Very unfair.