Benefits - does this seem realistic?

[Ivy44]

I was giving our office cleaner a lift home from one day (we chat a lot and she lives on my way home) last week and she openly told me how much she gets in benefits, I was a bit taken aback by the amount she gets as I keep reading articles about people on benefits being in poverty, due to all the cuts. She is a single parent of two children who works 16 hours a week as a cleaner, the children are 9 and 13.

Salary - £550 per month
Housing benefit - £360 per month (covers rent on a 3 bed council house)
£180 per month child maintenance
£1,120 per month in child/working tax credits and child benefits

This is the equivalent of a 35k a year gross salary. This isn’t supposed to be judgemental as she’s a nice lady who does a good job for us but I am a bit shocked at how much money is available in benefits, given the articles I keep seeing about poverty, food banks, teachers having to buy food for kids who go to school hungry etc.

Reading with I interest.
I'm.a single mum, currently working 50 hour weeks (with overtime)
Last year income before tax £22000.
I have a mortgage. I get £82.80 per month and £83.61 per month child tax credit. Is this even right? Seems very low in terms of 'help'

@coffeegrain
Seems low in comparison to what other people get. Maybe it’s because you have a mortgage so you aren’t eligible for housing benefit?

Hopefully someone who knows more than me will come along to advise.

Ivy44
I know, this thread highlighted that!
I don't get another other benefit other than £82.80 per month child benefit and £83.61 child tax credit. I don't have childcare costs, as work that with my ex husband and grandparents

From what is on this thread, you might be better off cutting your hours and still getting the same income as it’s topped up with benefits. 50 hours a week as a single mum is a lot. Don’t take my word for it though, this thread has been an eye opener for me too.

I increased hours and worked overtime so gradually the child tax credit reduced. Problem being the extra income isn't guaranteed so if I don't get the overtime, I'll now be £100 worse off. Can completely understand why people stay part time. I feel a fool. I wanted to improve our income and prospects. Plus, I'm exhausted.

@GreenTulips Not entirely sure why it's relevant, but tuition fee loan + student loan paid for my degree - will be paying them off for my entire working life most likely!

Coffeegrain it sounds right. Under UC you would get nothing unfortunately.

I really don’t understand this. Coffee grain works 50 hours a week and is worse off than our cleaner who works 16 hours? The benefits system seems perverse.

I don't understand either.
I do only have 1 child, no childcare costs and a mortgage though.

Not qualifying for help with housing costs can make a huge difference to the amount you get.

Coffee - With tax credits the less children you have the lower the threshold that you get tax credits. So I think with one child it's around 26k ( it may even be a bit lower than that ), so with your earnings being quite close to that you won't get much. If you had 2 or 3 kids the threshold would be a lot higher. ( if they were born before the cap). It does seem unfair though.

On Universal credit though if you don't claim the rent element because you have a mortgage you get a much higher work allowance ( an amount that is disregarded from wages before wages reduce you total Uc amount), so people with mortgages do benefit a little this way under UC. The irony is that people who own outright and therefore have no housing costs also get the benefit of this, something I really don't understand !!

The irony is that people who own outright and therefore have no housing costs also get the benefit of this, something I really don't understand !!

Also young singletons living in the family home.

DD (20) claimed UC for a few months last year, while she was ill, and - while it wasn't a lavish award - I was astonished how much she'd have been allowed to earn per month before she lost all entitlement to UC, even before they coded her as "unfit for work related activity". I'd never had cause to think much about that client group before.

So, yes, this is the uneven mess you get when a government decides to tear up the system and start from scratch, making policy according to their prejudices.

Only £350 for a 3 bedroom house in Manchester surprises me. I live in rural Northern Ireland where I thought rent and everything really was much cheaper. Don't even think I've seen anything other than a bedsit at that price. My friend gets housing benefit but she has to top up from her other benefits to cover the rent.

I get it. That is more than DH earns working 60 hours a week as a teacher. Mortgage is £1100. We don't earn much more between us. I do think it is a luxury to only have to work 16 hours a week. I am surprised that it is so high. I don't think anyone expects people to live in poverty - but to only have to work 16 hours in a stress free job for the same amount as someone working a 60 hour week in a stressful job seems a bit bonkers? People who are working longer hours also have children to look after & bills to pay. Having a paid salary rather than benefits doesn't suddenly make things like bills for food & electricity go away.
I do wonder if she will find things harder once children grow up - I expect she will have to give up the larger council house & won't get benefits that are related to the children.
I have no idea why on MN it is seen as being acceptable to claim benefits for things that the rest of us have to work for & long hours at that.

@thethrillofthehill
It’s a council house £360 per month. Private rent in most areas of South and West Manchester would be £800 plus for a 3 bed house.

I don’t know if she has a lifelong tenancy or not. I think I read that the government had stopped lifelong tenancies in social housing and they had to be reviewed every few years?

Oh fgs. The reason coffeegrain gets less than the OP's example is because she has 1 child. Thats 50% less children than this cleaner. She has less "need" than her because she has less children.

Coffee. Last year I earned the same as you. I get £1700 a month in tax credits. Why? Becuase I have 3 children. One with a disability attracting a severe disability premium. I also have childcare costs of £1100 a month.
I'd rather have a child without a disability and not have ridiculous childcare costs tbh.

Additionally so many people fail to realise that the limits for tax credits when you have childcare costs are high. With 1 child you will still get assistance at 40k. 2 children and those limits are even higher.

As an example, I have a boyfriend. We have considered moving in together. Our joint income (primary teacher and midwife) will be 49k. Childcare of £60 a week. Same 3 kids, one with severe disability element. We will still get £400 a month in universal credit.

I was a single parent for a good few year's, i worked 16hrs a week as a cleaner because it fitted in with the children at school and nursery i had no childcare although grandparents would take them on school holiday's, cleaning is very hard work for the pittance your paid, single parent's get the benefits there entitled to, i received no child maintenance from there father, when my youngest went to secondary i got a better paid job and worked full time, there is a lot of single parent bashing on this site i didn't ask to be a single parent it hard work being mum and dad, i've had to have job's that fitted in with the children, utility bills, rent, food and clothes aren't cheaper when your the only one trying to keep it all together, ive been full time in the same job for 28 year's so i think ive paid back what i received in benefits, at the time i really needed it.

Just a quick question (hope you don't mind)
Although I'm currently working 50 hours a week made up with overtime, my contracted hours are 26.5. This allows me to drop overtime in school holidays to save childcare costs. Would I be better off to increase my hours to say 30 permanently. I think I heard somewhere there was a 30 hour element or has that long gone?
I've no idea if this time round I have to apply for universal credit at my renewal?

@happyhillock
If your gross salary is 30k or above, then you are a net contributor.

I don’t know I’m afraid, @coffeegrain.

@rubbertreeplanet @babyroobs Seem to know more detail.

A website called entitledto was mentioned earlier. Have you tried putting your figures in that?

You could always choose to live like that, op. Just be aware that you'd end up on universal credit, at some point. When that happens to your cleaner, you may just lose her, as she'd probably be forced to take on a better paying job or increase her hourly rate.

@pickachew
I’m not sure where your attitude comes from, read my posts before commenting.

Market rate for a cleaner is minimum wage, like it or not, there is an oversupply of people who want part time cleaning jobs, which keeps the salary low.