Benefits - does this seem realistic?

[Ivy44]

I was giving our office cleaner a lift home from one day (we chat a lot and she lives on my way home) last week and she openly told me how much she gets in benefits, I was a bit taken aback by the amount she gets as I keep reading articles about people on benefits being in poverty, due to all the cuts. She is a single parent of two children who works 16 hours a week as a cleaner, the children are 9 and 13.

Salary - £550 per month
Housing benefit - £360 per month (covers rent on a 3 bed council house)
£180 per month child maintenance
£1,120 per month in child/working tax credits and child benefits

This is the equivalent of a 35k a year gross salary. This isn’t supposed to be judgemental as she’s a nice lady who does a good job for us but I am a bit shocked at how much money is available in benefits, given the articles I keep seeing about poverty, food banks, teachers having to buy food for kids who go to school hungry etc.

Hey all the OP is getting a hard time for maybe having a chat with the person in question. That's probably my fault. I kinda suggested it in a previous post.

I do want to qualify my suggestion. It could simply be a question like "so what does the future hold for you after the kids move out? Travel? Education?

A nice conversation, not one that's says you have to do this or that.

As I was saying earlier there's probably a cohort of women in similar situations who might be sleepwalking into a difficult financial future. How can we help them now without being insulting/insensitive/patriarchal? There must be a way.

A living wage is a major part of that. Housing costs and childcare costs another part.

I'm very involved in something in this area - investing in projects that support women and girls.

@graphista there’s a lot of projecting and anger in your post without any reason or logic. No one is attacking you personally. But it’s a bit silly to claim that cleaners deserve a huge wage. Quite simply and honestly it’s a low skilled job. It’s not akin to a consultant dr (whether or not they work 3 days a week as you claim or not) . It’s very different indeed. We don’t know how much ops friend is paid but even if it is minimum wage, with benefits they’re doing quite well out of it.

It’s entirely fair to compare one person to another particularly when we as tax payers are being asked to support them. Also what nonsense about landlords getting “tax breaks”. Landlord said generally pay more tax than other businesses due to the new rules on mortgage interest.

I a man a single parent and I work hard to support myself and pay taxes. It’s right and proper that we should discuss the benefits system.

But it’s a bit silly to claim that cleaners deserve a huge wage. Quite simply and honestly it’s a low skilled job. It’s not akin to a consultant dr (whether or not they work 3 days a week as you claim or not) . It’s very different indeed. We don’t know how much ops friend is paid but even if it is minimum wage, with benefits they’re doing quite well out of it.

I'm not sure anyone has suggested a huge wage tbf, a living wage (at full time hours) is what I've said, and what others have said. One you can live on without benefits, tax credits or anything else. I'm paid a little above minimum wage, and still get wtc - and that's on 42.5 per week. However I am not guaranteed that a week, because of zero hour contracts, my wages can fluctuate month on month as the needs of the business dictate. My average is between 30 and 35. And most of my outgoings are static - as in they're not up for negotiation, council tax, rent, water bill, travel etc. Most people on lower wages and top ups are in this position. Because the cost of living is higher than the wages. It really is that simple. To suggest it's not right that someone can earn a wage they can live on, because it's 'unskilled' and then demand we 'discuss' slate those on benefits is well, to my mind, a way of keeping the poor in their place and nothing more. It helps no one. Oh and the fact that many people, like me, on benefits also pay tax, is conveniently forgotten.
And again, society relies on these 'unskilled' and low paid jobs - care assistants, shop assistants etc, if they were to all get better jobs tomorrow, where would that leave society?

Dp recently lost his job. We have no savings are given £1100 to live off in total per month. It’s not enough for a family of 3 who are privately renting. Obviously, dp has been looking for a job ASAP.

Lord knows why she is getting so much but it’s not bloody fair.

Lord knows why she is getting so much but it’s not bloody fair.

She's getting more than you are because the vicious trust fund millionaires who dreamt the UC system up chose to "punish" unemployment and reward work. They don't understand the reality of job hunting, or having no savings.

I wouldn't say the woman in question is getting "so much", though. I'd say you're not getting enough.

We pay a lot of national insurance in this country and it should cover us all at modest but realistic levels for unemployment or illness.

Zsazsa - yes I'm angry, angry to see yet another thinly veiled benefit and single mum bashing thread, angry that people think that's acceptable, angry that this govt continues to treat the poor so badly and is increasing their efforts to demonise and disenfranchise them, angry that others aren't angry about this because "I'm alright Jack", angry there's still stigma and prejudice against single mums who are just doing their best for their families...

Maybe if more people were angry and challenged these views and ESPECIALLY the policies that are making things even harder for those already struggling we'd have a fairer society AND a healthier economy. Because contrary to current popular belief austerity ISN'T working for anyone.

"it’s a bit silly to claim that cleaners deserve a huge wage" NOBODY has said a huge wage - though it's telling you use the word "deserve" why do you think cleaners are undeserving? What I and a shockingly few others have said is that EVERYONE should get a wage that for full time hours is enough to live on at a basic level.

Do you really begrudge people that?!

"they’re doing quite well out of it" oh really? Would you like to live on that?

Low wages being subsidised either by traditional welfare benefits or tax credits aren't a case of taxpayers (btw she's is paying taxes too everyone does) supporting them but actually supporting in many cases very successful companies! Who don't actually need supporting but are taking advantage of the system to keep their wage bill low.

Landlords are considered by a number of economists to be under taxed, if they weren't there wouldn't be so many willing to be "amateur" landlords. The private rental market is woefully under regulated in the U.K. - hardly surprising when so many mps are landlords, or have vested interests in or own property development companies it's a conflict of interests. A fact which is glaringly obvious when you look at who these mps are and how they vote on policies affecting tenants.

Yes we should discuss the benefits system but far too many have ridiculous ideas about how it works and think it's an easy life on benefits.

And we should also be discussing low wages, tax avoidance and evasion, housing costs, costs of living, austerity policies etc they're all connected.

And the poor are the ones with the least power to effect change yet the ones most harmed by the changes.

I'm old enough to remember when wages in relation to cost of living were enough that they didn't need to be topped up so people could afford the basics.

Raggerty54 do not fall for the divide and conquer.

It is not people like the cleaner who've put you in that position it's extremely wealthy and always have been politicians who have no clue about real life and think nothing of spending over £30 on a single breakfast while creating systems and policies that lead to people starving to death in a rich country.

And the poor are the ones with the least power to effect change yet the ones most harmed by the changes.

And @Graphista I'd also say the ones who get the blame too, for where 'all the taxes' go. When in reality, the majority of spending on benefits is on pensions - and that's a whole other thread in itself.

Exactly. It's far too easy to scapegoat the poor, sick and disabled, they rarely have the energy or the resources to fight back.

They also face obstacles to voting shocker eh?

But I'd say it's less an issue of expenditure and more one of allocation.

This govt has passed many policies not only reducing payments to the poor but also reducing taxation on the rich - massively so!

Austerity policies my foot! If it were really about saving money from necessity - a necessity even if you believe in it caused by arrogant extremely wealthy bankers - then they wouldn't be giving those savings to the already wealthy.

The tories have ALWAYS been the party of nobility, landowners and company owners they have NEVER been a party that gives a fuck about the poor or even the working class.

If you're anything less than upper middle class yourself you're a fool to vote for them. And even then you'd be doing so for personal gain - an "I'm alright Jack" vote. To pretend otherwise is disingenuous and insulting to those worse off than you.

If people are entitled to it then let them claim it....but there are certain people out there who know how to play the system!!

If people are entitled to it then let them claim it....but there are certain people out there who know how to play the system!!

Can you back that up? Unlikely

Oh and anecdote does not equal data just incase you wanted to go that route in backing up your claim

justanotherposter I've got loads of examples! Are you really trying to say that every benefit claim is legit?

I'm not agreeing or disagreeing I would be interested in your examples if you have sources

A woman I know was convicted of claiming DLA which she was not entitled to. I could go on.

Not all benefits claims are legitimate.
In the area where I grew up the most common trick was claiming as a single person when in fact you were living with someone.
Not sure how prevalent it is today.

@Aveeno2017

Yes, I'm sure you could. However there are also incidences of people having everything stopped without warning because of mistakes, because someone has made a fraud report (in good faith even though they're wrong) and made a malicious fraud report. I've had the latter against me, I was reported for working - while actually working, and with TC in full knowledge. They reported me to the DWP I think originally, but they must have been a bit confused as I don't get anything from them, it was all a bit wierd and it must have been passed from pillar to post before it got TC and they looked into it, got the proof they needed (their own records!) And then went their merry way. Wonder how much that cost 'the taxpayer'?

"If people are entitled to it then let them claim it....but there are certain people out there who know how to play the system!!"

Small point but "playing the system" isn't the same as fraud.
Its legitimate to educate yourself about how the benefits system works and ensure you get your maximum entitlement. As legitimate as seeking tax advice, or understanding school admissions, orcalling a solicitor if you get arrested. Or any other area of life where a person might have to learn a set of rules.
I "played the system" when I sat down and worked out the ideal number of hours I should work to maximise my income taking into account childcare costs and tax credits.
My job involves benefit advice and I shamelessly help people "play the system" every day of my part time week.
I feel like benefits knowledge is only ever viewed in a negative light. As though we should be coming to the system as vulnerable as shorn lambs and meekly accepting its judgement on us.

NoYo still goes on!! Also a woman I worked with used to sub let her 3rd bedroom Not sure how legal that was given she was in receipt of housing benefits.

Sounds about right. Unfortunately she will loose everything when her children reach 18.

Perhaps we should turn the discussion around to talk about all of the incorrect decisions by the DWP, I have had a client die after being declared fit to work. They died whilst waiting for the appeal date. I used to do benefit appeals. Hundreds, and very rarely lost. The ones we lost were usually successful at Upper Tribunal. That's how bad the decision makers are. One judge said to me he had never read such an arrogant submission by the DWP, and told me he was writing a letter of complaint to them. We won that one too, against a decision that the client was not entitled to JSA. And the point about tax credits subsidising big businesses to earn more for their shareholders is a very valid point.

Aveeno2017

Can I highlight an earlier post you must have missed

Oh and anecdote does not equal data just incase you wanted to go that route in backing up your claim

So I'd much prefer statistics or studies than 'a woman I used to know'

@scifiscream
Thanks. I was just going to mention the courses I’ve done through work and mention that every employee has a training budget allocated to them, so she work would pay for her to study. She may or may not be aware of that.

@bookworm4
I’m not bitter or jealous, I have a very nice life thanks. I’m lucky to have a job that I enjoy, that also pays quite well. Although I did study to MSc level followed by a professional qualification to get there. Along with always working 40 plus hours per week.

It’s sad that you are so angry at the world.

justanotherposter you know fine well I can't give you statistics or data...it happens but you keep on living in denial that it doesn't.