FIL using GC as a finance transaction - how can we address this without hurting MIL?

[Iwant2befree]

Long post to give some context - thanks for sticking with me!

MIL life dream was to have GC, adores all children. Myself and husband have 4year old DD. We both work full time . Live about 10 mins away from husbands parents . DD goes to Creche full time.

2 years ago DH and I hit a very tough patch. Make or break scenario. At the time DH asked MIL before we get a baby sitter is there any reason why she didn't want to occasionally baby sit and help with GD (evening out )

He asked this because MIL is besotted with GC. Turns out MIL wants to do all those things but FIL sees all baby sitting as a service which should be paid for. MIL doesn't want to upset the FIL so stupidly we agree to pay for all baby sitting.

Now this is where the problem is.

1. I have no issue giving money to MIL instead of a baby sitter but the lines between being grandparents or a business transaction are being seriously blurred (exampleS below)

1. FIL does nothing to help MiL while "baby sitting" but in fact refuses to drive 10 mins to our house makes MIl drive to us even though she isn't the most confident driver

1. DH and I do a lot for both of them, as all families do - driving places , book holidays for them , help wherever they need etc. In the past when we they have helped us with a course one of hours sitting we always give tokens of appreciation it's never gone un noticed.

FIL always has been selfish and controlling , MIl refused baby sitting money once and FIL told DH not to embarrass her and put the cash in an envelope instead ...... ☹️

So our dilemma - it's gone beyond ridiculous, we have patched things up and welcomed a beautiful new child , which MIL claims is the Twain for her existence, 2 healthy GC her dream. But the problem we have is we are charged doing rate of a childminder for any type of minding of them. For example to help DD1 settle I've the new arrival and tongive us a break DD had one sleep over at GP House - we paid for that overnight sleepover €40

MIl then asks what plans are for childcare when I RTW as they would like to help and she wants to take them for 1-2 days ....... FIL agrees .... but then changes his mind when we advise what the childminder would charge (explicitly says its not worth anyone working for that is hi with that option you won't get cheaper ) MIL still insisting she wants to do it - but we would be paying an hourly rate the same as a qualified childminder . We didn't agree but cane away slightly saddened that it's FIL again just seeing how much money can be made from it

Finally in the middle of this above discussion MiL OFFERS to babysit so we can have a few drinks after the baby , our first night out on our own , just a few hours. A nice happy occasion . Come back home from our meal & drinks ..... low and behold we've been charged the hourly rate again for the "offer" of baby sitting.
I'd somehow thought this would be a gesture .

I am so hurt by all of this , MIL is very passive and although doesn't "want" the money does actively take it for a quite like with the FIL.
I feel that FIL is just using the kids and us as a cash cow , I would never expect them to mind GC for free but to date we've paid them for baby sitting on there own sons birthday, paid for a night where I was working very late and DH had an injection and couldn't mind our DD and now charged for a night celebrating the arrival of their very own GD. Last week we took then to a show and bought the tickets for them , we put petrol in their car to cover the cost of the 10 min drive , I really feel exploited and taken advantage off.

How do I approach this with MIl bearing in mind she hates confrontation of any kind (that's why she lets FIL dictate) she also lives for the GC and I don't want her to feel that she has done something wrong. But if we continue we will be charged baby sitting if we go to the bathroom in their company.

Hope this makes sense - I've spoken to friends who say their own GP if they do baby sit would never take cash , a small token every now and again but not like the situation we are in.

OMG your FIL is a twat.
It would never occur to me to charge my DC for babysitting.
What does your DH say ?
You could get MIL on here, so we can tell her to LTB.

Your mil is just as bad in this situation.
She is choosing to support fil and by enabling this situation.
All you need to say is the situation is no longer working for you all and you have make other plans.

Stop the situation as it's nonsense, arrange other childcare and stop doing them favours. FIL sounds like a right grumpy git!

Could you insist that if they want a financial transaction that she registers as a childminder,full security check done (DBS) and a receipt for tax deductions required.
This may get FIL thinking or not.

Stop asking them.

Perhaps you need to charge them for a few things to make a point?

This is an insane situation. I’ve never heard of grandparents charging for babysitting! I think you just need to tell them you’ve made alternative arrangements and pay a professional babysitter/nanny. Their loss. Also are they paying tax on this income, maybe ask your FiL that just to wind him up - he sounds like a truly awful human being!

They’re being fairly upfront about their expectations- it’s up to you and DH whether the annoyance and feeling of being taken advantage of is worth it.

Please don’t be a mug by paying them childminder rates for regular childcare- they won’t have anything like the overheads a registered childminder would have to cover, and I’m sure they aren’t qualified in the same way either.

I’d be interested in hearing if your FIL will be offering to pay you and DH an hourly rate for any caring responsibilities you might take on for him or MIL as they get older

I was so annoyed with your FIL I didn't say anything useful !
But I agree with other posters let MIL come round when she wants, but no more baby sitting.

Next time the offer of babysitting crops up, I would simply tell them that you have been introduced to an excellent local babysitting service with very competitive rate which you intend to use in future.
If pressed for reasons, I would tell them the truth, that the blurring of family, love and grandparenting with a business transaction makes you feel very uncomfortable. And the situation will only worsen when DCs grow old enough to be aware that their GPs only spend time with them when paid to do so.

How does FIL know she's been paid for a babysit? Does he take the money? Why can't she just she just give it back afterwards? How much do they charge for sleepovers?

Otherwise you'll just have to say to them sorry we can't afford it any more. We'll make other arrangements. See what they say

1. Stop doing anything for them
2. Stop paying them to do things for you, pay a professional
3. You don't need to get involved, get DH to talk to his parents

It sounds like you are being used by FIL and used by MIL. It's completely out of order. Fine not to expect anything for nothing, but it shouldn't be on their terms.

Thank you.

FIL has always been selfish and cold but this is new territory. We've learned the more we give the more he wants , it's disgusting really.

Meeting MiL tomorrow as DH is genuinely very upset after the last conversation about childminder rates for "helping us out" I think the best option is to be honest and let MIl know she. An see them at any time at all but not in a paid capacity - will also reduce the visits we make to GF , he will be welcome to come to us as he actually doesn't deserve the love of 2 lovely GD when he treats them and their parents in this way.

They're both as bad as each other. You say it's FIL but MIL is accepting the money.

But some families are like this. I have a good friend and they all "charge" each other for stuff like lifts etc. Very odd

Tell them that you need receipts for cash handed over for your tax records!

This is insane and is also likely costing you more than using a professional childminder or nursery as you won’t be able to claim vouchers or tax free childcare as she’s not registered. If they are genuinely charging commercial rates they will be costing you more and you won’t be getting the same sorts of enrichment activities. That is without thinking about the message your FIL is sending which is horrid. I could understand a contribution for regular childcare but paying grandparents for as hoc baby sitting is just weird.

Very weird. Buying flowers/wine to say thank you, giving a bit of money towards a day out, ice creams etc, all normal. Just stop using them and tell them why, leave them to work out how to put things right.

Is FIL financially abusive of MIL? Emotionally abusive? I’d be looking out closely for red flags of that, and trying to support her to recognise it, if so. (But not paying her for childcare.)

This is all mad and you have to put a stop to it.

You can do this easily - "We've been looking into childcare options and realise that we could all be in trouble for paying professional child minding rates for daycare if you aren't registered, and it won't work when I return to work anyway as I won't be able to use my tax deducted childcare. YOu can look into the registration if you like but of course that will involve First AId and DBS checks and lost of admin. You are of course welcome to spend time with GC but we can't offer you money to do that."

Then maybe get MIL to come round when your or DH are in the house - so not babysitting - but you can use that time to get on top of some chores or both have some 1-1 time with different DC. She gets to see the kids without her wanker husband and might come round to babysitting 'for free' like a normal GP.

It doesn't help you with returning to work and evenings out, but you need good reliable childcare for work that doesn't come with guilt and obligation, so your MIL is not the solution to that.

Absolutely no more paying for any childcare. Tell mil she can see them any time. Also no more favours or gifts that would benefit fil.
You could send mil an invite to dinner with you or a show with you. I’d be done with your fil personally.

Omg this is fucking ridiculous. Just don't use their babysitting services anymore. Let them come when convenient (to you and them) to see the GCs if they wish, but no "babysitting". Use a professional babysitter for the kids to go out once in a while etc and proper childcare for when you go back to work. They're making it easy for you in a way by being outrageous.

Don't do anything for them. Don't spend any money on them. Don't use them for childcare. I'd limit my time with them.

If that's the situation then surely they should be declaring the money to the tax man ? Maybe bring this up and see what they say ?
They both sound as bad as each other