FIL using GC as a finance transaction - how can we address this without hurting MIL?

[Iwant2befree]

Long post to give some context - thanks for sticking with me!

MIL life dream was to have GC, adores all children. Myself and husband have 4year old DD. We both work full time . Live about 10 mins away from husbands parents . DD goes to Creche full time.

2 years ago DH and I hit a very tough patch. Make or break scenario. At the time DH asked MIL before we get a baby sitter is there any reason why she didn't want to occasionally baby sit and help with GD (evening out )

He asked this because MIL is besotted with GC. Turns out MIL wants to do all those things but FIL sees all baby sitting as a service which should be paid for. MIL doesn't want to upset the FIL so stupidly we agree to pay for all baby sitting.

Now this is where the problem is.

1. I have no issue giving money to MIL instead of a baby sitter but the lines between being grandparents or a business transaction are being seriously blurred (exampleS below)

1. FIL does nothing to help MiL while "baby sitting" but in fact refuses to drive 10 mins to our house makes MIl drive to us even though she isn't the most confident driver

1. DH and I do a lot for both of them, as all families do - driving places , book holidays for them , help wherever they need etc. In the past when we they have helped us with a course one of hours sitting we always give tokens of appreciation it's never gone un noticed.

FIL always has been selfish and controlling , MIl refused baby sitting money once and FIL told DH not to embarrass her and put the cash in an envelope instead ...... ☹️

So our dilemma - it's gone beyond ridiculous, we have patched things up and welcomed a beautiful new child , which MIL claims is the Twain for her existence, 2 healthy GC her dream. But the problem we have is we are charged doing rate of a childminder for any type of minding of them. For example to help DD1 settle I've the new arrival and tongive us a break DD had one sleep over at GP House - we paid for that overnight sleepover €40

MIl then asks what plans are for childcare when I RTW as they would like to help and she wants to take them for 1-2 days ....... FIL agrees .... but then changes his mind when we advise what the childminder would charge (explicitly says its not worth anyone working for that is hi with that option you won't get cheaper ) MIL still insisting she wants to do it - but we would be paying an hourly rate the same as a qualified childminder . We didn't agree but cane away slightly saddened that it's FIL again just seeing how much money can be made from it

Finally in the middle of this above discussion MiL OFFERS to babysit so we can have a few drinks after the baby , our first night out on our own , just a few hours. A nice happy occasion . Come back home from our meal & drinks ..... low and behold we've been charged the hourly rate again for the "offer" of baby sitting.
I'd somehow thought this would be a gesture .

I am so hurt by all of this , MIL is very passive and although doesn't "want" the money does actively take it for a quite like with the FIL.
I feel that FIL is just using the kids and us as a cash cow , I would never expect them to mind GC for free but to date we've paid them for baby sitting on there own sons birthday, paid for a night where I was working very late and DH had an injection and couldn't mind our DD and now charged for a night celebrating the arrival of their very own GD. Last week we took then to a show and bought the tickets for them , we put petrol in their car to cover the cost of the 10 min drive , I really feel exploited and taken advantage off.

How do I approach this with MIl bearing in mind she hates confrontation of any kind (that's why she lets FIL dictate) she also lives for the GC and I don't want her to feel that she has done something wrong. But if we continue we will be charged baby sitting if we go to the bathroom in their company.

Hope this makes sense - I've spoken to friends who say their own GP if they do baby sit would never take cash , a small token every now and again but not like the situation we are in.

Have you posted this before op? All seems familiar, sad if it's still going on especially now there's another grandchild in the mix.

Ide probably have a very frank discussion with both of them over this, either stop letting them mind the kids, or start charging them for the help you give them.

@Guiltypleasures001 I have indeed , I thought we had nipped it in the bud but it escalated again.

The hard part is FIL has always been tight and miserable. We are very close to his MIL and I genuinely feel sorry for her to live with such a mean and miserable individual. They have a small income but house paid off etc so I have always treated them as has my DH over the last few years.

With the arrival of the second GC and then approaching us with the exact words "we want to talk to you about childcare and MIL staying she wants to look after the GC 1-2 days " we thought finally they are acting like regular GP. FIL seems to have become even more miserable over the last few months and now sees everything as a financial exchange.

It's not just us that he is like this with. Won't spend a penny on anything, wont go out for family meals , would never buy a round of drinks . Doesn't see that family is give and take.

We would often invite MIl for a dinner or any kind of treat but we know in the background he is harping on to her and for the one outing she has with us she has to listen to his moaning for the rest of the week. This is the o my reason we agreed a year ago to pay for occasional sitting , so she could get joy from her GC and he would have nothing to moan about - but he has taken it to far and to charge your own child for going to dinner with his wife to celebrate the birth of a second GC just topped me over the edge.

Meeting MIl to explain that it is stopping and if she wants to spend time with GC she will have to stand up for herself.

While he isn't abusive he would send you mental with the moaning on and on , I've never met a more negative man in my life. MIL hates conflict and would do anything for a quiet life which is why I think she allows him to drive a wedge because we have been stupid enough to let this go on for too long.

It's going to be a tough discussion but after reading all the posts I'm confident that we are not being cruel to her .

Thank you for the all comments - will let you know the outcome!

One thing I am struggling with is how do I say this is outrageous?

I don't have any living parents so how do I know that all GP don't charge for regular baby sitting?? I do want to emphasizes that one it feels wrong we are a family not a business , but would like to stress that it's really a very abnormal set up .....

I think it does verge on abuse tho. Might come under coercive control.

Open an account for mil. Negotiate a rate and bank it for her. Fil can fuck off.
Or cm and they can lump it

You don't have to evidence it, they bloody know it's not a usual set up, she's doing it anyway. Just tell them it's stopping now, and if tgat means they choose not to babysit anymore then that's fine, as long as everyone is clear.

It’s ridiculous to charge family for childcare the way they’re doing. Of course I treat my parents in return for doing me a favour. And if I was using them as regular childcare I’d want to discuss it so everyone is happy.

Just tell her you’re not happy making GCs a financial obligation and going forward they can see GCs when they want.. but not as a favour to you. So there will be no payment. And don’t use them as babysitters because it feels like they’re only seeing GCs as sitters then and you want them to enjoy their GCs like grandparents

Just tell her this arrangement is not normal and can't continue
If they want to look after the children great!! But it's not on a psid basis it should be because they are their GCs

I would pay my children to go out so that I could babysit! I can't imagine charging them.

It's different if it's full time childminding - I think there should be some recompense there, but for the odd afternoon or evening, no way on this earth.

Jesus I owe my parents a lot of money! It's is not normal to charge to babysit your own GC! Sorry OP but you are being to nice you are going to have to pay a childminder as you said. Just think of your DC do you want them around FIL or learning its OK to be mean and abusive to MIL?

so shocked by this!

I have to sneak cash to my parents for taking the DCs out because they never accept anything.

It is outrageous and you would be correct in telling them so! Get DH on side, it will be easier as a team.

Really sad situation for your mil, weak as she is. What a horrible man!

What an absolutely abhorrent situation. Firstly from a legal perspective I don't think you can pay MIL to be a childminder for you unless she does register.

Apart from that, I find it so awful that you have to pay for your DC's grandparents to spend time with them. Your FIL is awful, but your MIL is enabling it, and unless you pull her DGC away from her it will continue.

Remind him that when he needs care you from you will be charging him for it at the going rate.

"Now that we have another baby coming into our family we have had to look at our budget. We need to cut back on our spending. I'm cancelling Sky TV, downgrading my mobile phone contract, getting a more economical car, I've been looking at changing from ASDA to Aldi and we're cutting out grandparenting. We just can't afford to spend our budget paying for grandparents. We've got the cash set aside to ensure the kids have parents but grandparents are an unnecessary luxury."

Imagine this continuing and the kids being old enough to realise they are just a cash transaction and are not visited just because they are so loved!

no way on earth would my DM ever accept money. I would limit time spent with your PIL, you wouldn’t want your kids growing up thinking attitudes like that are acceptable.

I would simply say you are tightening your belt and need to consider all outgoings. MIL is welcome to visit but sadly no babysitting or sleepovers.

With a professional you have more say on the children's upbringing and the option of utilising childcare vouchers.

I would send this to your fil

www.gov.uk/become-childminder-nanny

She needs to be registered and pay tax on the money recieved.

Also

That is so out of the ordinary for gp to charge to see their gcs.. You need to stop this it's become a business transaction for the both of them which is just wrong.

If pressed for reasons, I would tell them the truth, that the blurring of family, love and grandparenting with a business transaction makes you feel very uncomfortable. And the situation will only worsen when DCs grow old enough to be aware that their GPs only spend time with them when paid to do so

This

Are you in the UK?

There can't be anyone apart from your PILs who doesn't know that grandparents don't charge for looking after their grandchildren, get them to ask literally anyone about it.

I think you need to get tough and tell them it can't continue and (if true) that they need to register as a childminder if they accept payment (I'm not sure if this is true so check first). If you're paying you might as well have someone with first-aid training, insurance etc

This is insane! I can’t believe you and, moreso, your DP have allowed this to go on for so long. Neither FIL nor MIL love or respect you, they’re chronic CFs! Stop being such a walkover and put a stop to this madness once and for all.

Remind him that when he needs care you from you will be charging him for it at the going rate.

This. They need a favour - eg a lift to the hospital? London taxi rates.

I also like the “grandparents are an expensive luxury” line. Quite a ridiculous situation. Yes, some people take the piss with expecting family to do childcare. But as an occasional favour, no way would money explicitly change hands. You may, say, but MIL lunch or a bunch of flowers to say thank you. But to expect payment is bizarre....

I wouldn’t be dressing it up as needing to make cutbacks. The situation should never have arisen in the first place.

Omg the FIL is a greedy abusive twat. I am unable to type what I really think, but wow OP I'm stunned for you!

I'm genuinely shocked reading this thread. Fgs OP just stop with all the lifts, treats, tickets etc. Just stop. Stop!
And get both children into paid childcare and find a babysitter. And you will have to tell MIL that you pay someone who has had all the checks, Ofsted registered, etc. That she is welcome to visit but you would rather keep financial services seperate from family time. Could you say its a bit awkward paying family so you are stopping this. And that the same applies to you helping them out.
What a tight fisted old miser your FIL is.