MLM Botwatch 31 - A thread for people concerned that a friend or family member has disappeared into the world of MLM

[GavinFromTradingStandards]

New thread Huns

@TheRealBarnbot - why was Canadian TopBot crying in a training video? Lots of Bots sharing the photo and saying how wonderful he is!

Going back a few pages to Nevile and his gossiping comments - I have to agree to some extent.

I don't post often on these threads but do read them a lot. I'm a self-employed freelancer and am used to the terrified expression which people adopt when I tell them that and they think I'm going to launch into a spiel about aloe vera or make-up. These threads are a very useful resource for pepole who aren't aware what MLM does, or how these companies operate, or are on the verge of being sucked in.

But for every really useful post about China banning MLM or the latest skinny coffee scam being declared illegal there are 20 posts gossiping about some person's wedding or hair. These are completely impenetrable to people who are not "in the loop" as nicknames are used, leading to a flurry of "PM me so and so's FB profile" which is just as bad as the "PM me hun" stuff the MLM people get up to. I understand the point that you have to expose the lies of the people who are prominent in that industry and that's justified certainly - if someone's posting for example that they've just bought a new Audi and it's actually their sister's. But idle gossip really isn'y helpful or useful and is meaningless unless you're in the know. If you're not in the know, the gossip and "so and so bot" names are totally meaningless and yes, it excludes people.

So my respectful suggestion would be having a separate thread where you can discuss the antics of your favourite "bots" well away from the core thread discussing the tactics and the companies. Obviously there will be come crossover, but at the moment it's 75% gossip and meaningless code names and 25% good stuff.

Not meant to be a critical post btw, Timeless Vie is doing a fab job.

I agree Poppy. It's become a circus and I'm stunned that people think it's ok to be PM'ing names left right and centre, it's really crass. It totally goes against what this thread is supposed to be about and undermines the work that Timeless Vie and BotWatch do.

triple They are full of horse shit! WTAF?!

On the subject of legal teams, certain bots will need good advice when Trading Standards and the ASA catch up with them.

Maybe we should split the threads - one just for MLM Botwatch and one for Botgossip

I think that people still involved with Valentus are clinging to the company registration issue... and it's a red herring. Whether or not the company is 'registered' has no bearing on the product - which still does not conform to UK regulations and until it does, cannot legally be sold in the UK.

But you carry on clinging to the registration myth huns!

There is so much here for me to read but does anyone have information or links about Arbonne and how to go about warning my relative - so far it seems to have cost her a fortune and she is losing respect from people in the family. She won't really listen about it being something she needs to get out of but I don't really understand how it works in terms of what she has buy and put in to be able to properly discuss and warn her off.

Hi

Botwatch and Timeless Vie are good places to get info, but here's something interesting. It's the income disclosure statement for 2015

If you look at it you'll see the percentage of Arbonne reps at each level and their average INCOME (not profit, remember all expenses are paid for by the reps themselves including business cards, hire of stalls at fairs, 'success days' , petrol etc etc)

It's pretty clear that most make very little or, if you take into account expenses, make a loss

And the table doesn't include inactive people, i.e. who paid to join then gave up

That table is actually pretty horrifying when you look at it with clear eyes. Thanks, Sponge.

That really is horrifying Sponge especially since it is the expenses and other outgoings that worried me in the first place!

She is lovely, intelligent but not any type of a sales person and I just cannot understand why she can't see she needs to get out and should never have got involved.

I have this theory that inculcees actually 'feel' well off because they have piles of 'stuff' and some jars of money in cupboards. )They're not noticing the big withdrawals for stock or household bills which just keep mounting.)

I don't know how true that is of course.

Also she will be being 'love bombed' by her upline, making her feel special and part of an in-crowd. You, as an outsider, will seem sour and negative

The love bombed is absolutely correct and that, along with not wanting to lose the friendship of the person she sells for, I am sure is what is preventing her from just calling it a day.

Does it not occur to her that she's putting money in the pockets of that person, though? It's hardly what you might call a relationship of pure friendship.

This is what I hate. The upline is all 'I empower women to create an additional income' whereas the truth is they are using their downline to create their own income
Grr

Ultimately, the person who recruited you is financially incentivised to do so. They are also financially incentivised to 'encourage' you to load up on stock.

Think about that.

It's my SIL who is the one involved. Her house is full of Arbonne products which I assumed is because she has to buy a set amount each month/year. She owes everyone money and I am guessing it is because she is spending it on Arbonne product and training in America, which doesn't seem to make any difference as she is just not a sales person. She is ruining her life because of Arbonne from what I can tell and see.

Has she ever actually sat down and worked out eg a simple profit and loss statement?

PS- how are her finances being propped up?

Does anybody know if Temple Spa is an MLM?

I'm not sure she would admit to it if she had cozietoesie. I think her finances have been propped up by borrowing which is what makes it all so much worse and why I am really worried. She is just so defensive about Arbonne and has been involved for a year now. I'm not sure she has any friends left from this and all of the family are really annoyed by her constant sales pitch. I can see that a small minority do make money but she is not a sales person and is normally the sort of person to go out of their way to make others happy and please them.

I couldn't say 100% about temple spa because I've never looked into it however my neighbour does it and I'm sure I've heard mention of her "team" before

I had a look at the firm once and they were a Direct Selling organisation. (Albeit quite pricey.) It's worth keeping an eye on such firms, though - they sometimes develop 'other streams' (essentially MLM in nature) which you can get into if you wish. (The 'Pic 'N Mix' brigade.)

It sounds as if she'll crash and burn then, Yet. I'll admit that it must be galling to realise you've been daft and that you have debts to repay (with no upside) - but what's the alternative for her? How long can she keep going as she is?

Is anyone still lending to her?