Can we survive like this for long? (I've namechanged for this)

[pennypincher]

Would appreciate some opinions please? I've recently gone back to work, DH is staying at home with DS. I am on just over £20k a year. Out of that we have to cover mortgage, council tax, utility bills and household/life insurance which come to around £800. Then there's food, running the car which we need, DH's credit cards (minimum payments), clothes for DS, absolute minimum work clothes for me, cat care, DH's CSA payments (has to pay minimum even though not earning), DS nursery for one day a week (so DH can try to find part time work) - all out of the remaining £500 or so (including tax credit and child benefit). I can't afford new casual clothes, shoes or a haircut; we hardly ever go out or have takeaways; don't know when we'll next get a holiday, etc. God forbid that the boiler breaks down or anything.

The last bit about not affording clothes, shoes, haircuts, etc. has been pretty standard for the last few years but now I've got DS to think of as well. We've got to be able to get things for him. I'm trying to cut down on the food bills as much as poss, but need to make sure DS especially gets a good balanced diet. I make all his food from scratch and most of ours.

This isn't a whinge, I just wanted to put over the situation and get opinions on how sustainable this is in the long term in case DH doesn't have much luck with part time work. Also some advice on money saving would be great. Thank you!

I sympathise with your situation as I have very little money myself. I'm bringing up 4 kids on a lot less than your income and it is manageable.

I just wanted to say though, I don't think your dh's ex partner buying a house is relevant do you? Assuming that your dh doesn't dispute his dd is his, why would you begrudge paying child maintenance? If he isn't working, it is probably set at the bare minimum of about £5 per week.

Just have to say that you lot are brilliant! I think there are decisions I'm ready to make, but DH isn't and not sure if/when he will be. That makes him sound terrible which isn't what I mean at all. He's not great with money but he's great in all sorts of other ways - I've been quite poorly over the years and he's stuck by me through thick and thin.

No you're right, it's probably not relevant Hunkeydorey - but I'm effectively paying the maintenance while my DS goes without and it just rankles me, that's all. But that's a whole separate issue and I'm sorry for mentioning it.

My sister baby shares with a friend of hers to avoid childcare costs, she works on a Tuesday and her friend minds her kids for that day and then Thursday she returns the favour.
If Dh goes to Toddler groups etc he may find he doesn't need the release that a day off brings, they're a godsend! Why not put it to him that he has 2 months to find a job otherwise the Nursery place is going! Sometimes a shove is needed.
Agencies will take on staff on flexible working arrangements regardless of qualifications, we've a couple of friends who sond like they're in the similar situation and got work through agencies as a stop-gap until they figured out what to do.
The DFW is a forum, go to the site, click forums, scroll down to DFW and click in there. It has stickies which will guide first timers as to what to do. There is also an "Old Stlye" board which I'm a huge fan of which will also help you to cut back money but not necessarily you're way of living altogether.
We have a monthly strict budget and spreadsheet to include things like birthdays, car tax, insurance etc all factored in so we get no surprises through the year.
Menu planning is absolutely essential, it's the only way we continue to eat Organic, cheaply and healthily. Our bills are at the lowest they could possibly be, we have no gym, budget for clothes (I'm learning to make our own) night's out regularly, sky tv. Broadband is our only luxury I'm afraid. We have an allotment where we grow our own. YET we are the happiest we have ever been! It can be done honest!

I thought if you didn't have an income then you only paid the minimum which was £5 a week. Do you have to pay more than that then? Sorry, I'm not asking you to tell me what you're paying, just wondering.

That's a good idea sorkycake about the time limit. I think that's what I'll do.

Thanks everyone! Just need to sell all this to DH now... (and hope he doesn't realise I've been on here telling you all about it, even though you don't know who I am!)

It's minimum £5 something. Then there are arrears caused by various CSA cockups over the years - that's another minimum £5 something towards those. Comes to well over £40 a month which is quite a lot.

Maybe you need to sit down with Dh and go through everything at the kitchen table so to speak, maybe then you'll see how long you think you can manage for. Btw we have two cats that are sent to be groomed 3 times a year, have flea jabs twice yearly, but no innoculations (they're a scam imo). We don't have insurance for them. If they need treatment which is more than we can afford then harsh decisions will be made, probably why they've never needed anything LOL, We have life insurance since the kids came, home and contents but that's it nothing else. Can you post here what you pay out every month, quite detailed and we can see if we can help a bit further?

I don't think 20K is much to live on with a family to be honest, I knw we would struggle, and we are up north with low mortgages, and we don't have a particularly extravagent lifestyle.

I think that the nursery is a luxury to be honest. I also think to be honest thatif someone wants to find work it is not that hard even if it means working in a supermarketor pub in the evening. Being a stay at home parent is a luxury really and perhaps there needs to be sacrifices in another area of your life such as your dh working evenings.

I bet your ds's nursery place costs nearly as much as that for one day, if costs are similar to around here. I think that's quite outrageous actually, particularly as your ds goes to nursery because your dh is struggling with his role of sahd.

I really recommend buying clothes from second hand shops. The majority of my kids clothes are second hand, my mum has got them some amazing stuff that I couldn't possibly afford normally. Make sure you have a regular clear out and either ebay or bootfair the stuff you don't need or want anymore. Never throw anything away unless you really have to.

OK Sorkycake, you asked for it!

Mortgage including sickness payment protection for me: £500

Life insurance for mortgage (DH and me): £60

Utilities including water and phone: £90

Council tax: £82

Car insurance: £24

Home insurance (buildings and contents): £25

TV licence: £11.37

Food and household shopping: around £250 to £300 a month

CSA: £42

DH credit cards: £100

Adds up to £1234.37 which pretty much equals my net monthly income. That's before nursery fees (so they have to be short term unless DH finds job), road tax, clothes for DS, etc. etc., recent huge car bill. We do need the car as relatives live all over the country and public transport costs a fortune. Also I need it for work (site visits, etc.)

We are cancelling AA membership. Getting rid of second car which failed it's MOT and we can't afford to repair (throw back to when we lived in the middle of nowhere - tried to sell and couldn't), DH is getting rid of his mobile phone.

HELP!

Flippin heck your council tax is low, where are you, unless that will ruin your incognito bit.

Firstly have you done as several people have suggested and joined www.moneysavingexpert.com. It really is the first thing you need to do. Go to the Debt Free Wanabee board on the forums and check it out. Look at the stickys first. Do a spreadsheet and then post a statement of affairs on the board. The guys will give you really good pointers. Then when that is done show DH the spreadsheet so he can see with his own eyes what is happening in black and white. Then if he's still resisting show him the threads on here and on there.

Another good board on Martins site is the Old Style board. Would definatly suggest you buy a little book and log everything you buy, and I do mean everything, even that pack of polo's you bought at the garage.

Good luck with it all and please do sign up to moneysavingexpert.com

One of lowest district councils in the country thank god - it's a band A house. Yes it would ruin my incognito as there aren't many of us from round here - sorry!

I will go and look at the moneysavingexpert site sahmtotwo - it sounds pretty useful.

Have you put down absolutely everything? Cat costs etc, lunches, mobiles are a luxury, good to get rid. If cars are needed for job then work should provide a hire car at their cost, my work does. Look into a pool car at work, if it's required for the job they have to provide. Relatives will visit you!
The bills are quite tight I'll be honest, uswitch.com will help you lower your utilities and moneysupermarket.com will help lower insurance though they sound pretty cheap already. The credit cards shoyld be moved to a low life of balance card or 0% if you can get them. eBay anything your son has outgrown and buy to fit him now with the money, this negates huge clothing costs. I buy from eBay for myself too. Charity shops are an excellent source of good quality clothing. Freecycle often has bundles to be given away free. Maybe your Dh needs to see this thread to realise the full extent of what you're facing.

HA!(sorry ) - DH's daughter lives hundreds of miles away and not once, NOT ONCE, have her lot helped out with travel. We/just DH has to go there every time, and that's only about once or twice a year. Also DH's mother is incapacitated and can't get here to see us.

Anyway, sorry to keep rebuffing with obstacles - that's the trouble with message boards - you just can't get over the whole story. It's always, ah but this, but that...

I didn't include cat costs in that actually - I suppose vets and the occasional cattery bill etc. make around £15 a month when broken down. I take my own lunch to work, top up my mobile once in a blue moon. I pretty much lost the will to live writing that list once I reached my net income threshold tbh... Anything other than what's on the list I'd consider non-essential/non-quantifiable. Apart from clothes for DS but he's only just growing out of a lot of clothes given as presents so don't know what we'll have to spend really.

You can ask for travel costs to be taken into account when calculating maintenance payments.

Oh yes you can ask Hunkeydorey - then the CSA happily ignore you - it's not frequent enough you see (get the irony there??) Sorry - I don't want to turn this into a rant about the CSA. We've moved on a lot from the bad old days when DH was contracting and they couldn't keep up with his changes in income - that was really really bad.

OK re cats. Can you find a local cat owner who would be willing to swap cat care over holidays, thereby saving cattery fees?

You clearly need the car. Could your dh do some minicabbing? Not sure about insurance implications.

The thing that kaiboshes me always used to be presents. When I couldn't buy stuff for myself, I told myself I 'had' to buy nice presents for people which gave me an excuse to visit shops I otherwise wouldn't. This added up hugely. You are probably way ahead of this, but if not, get into baking - give homemade biscuits or sweets instead of wine if a guest somewhere, fairy cakes with children's names on for birthdays or new babies (one per initial).

Christmas. Do you celebrate it? Again, you may already have been through all this. Tell family and friends that you're only giving presents to people under ?25 (adjust downwards as necessary depending on fertility of your family). Use children's drawings as wrapping paper (tape several together for anything larger). This may well be a false economy but I buy chemisty stuff in Boots all year and use the points for the cards - it is so great to walk out with Christmas presents that I haven't had to pay for at that time.

Keep all birthday and Christmas cards you receive and cut off the back to use as either gift tags or other cards. NB try not to give a card back to the person who gave it to you!

I am NOT an advocate of buying presents early, on spec, when you see a good deal, although many advise this. I tend to find that unless I buy with a specific person in mind, I end up with presents I can't use.

If anybody does need haircuts, the local hair and beauty college can be useful - I do get my hair cut every 3 months or so for £5. DH cuts his own with clippers from Argos.

I'm on £8K, dh is on quite good money but extremely erratic as he went self-employed last May and barely earned anything in the second half of the year. However, I'm very lucky as we have incredibly generous relations. I bet you could teach me a lot about saving - just thought I'd pass on stuff that works for me.

sorry when I say 'holidays' I mean any time you've had to use a cattery!

Oh and re holidays again - have a look at the houseswap board here

wish i could delete my post as it's so patronising. The only bit I would leave is the minicabbing and the cat care swap.

Choosyfloosy - it's not patronising. I'm open to all advice. I was just about to thank you for the interesting suggestions!

I'm good at ranting about the CSA PP, it's just that i'm on the other side of the fence.

I will certainly be looking through this thread again, trying to apply some of the suggestions to my own situation.