Can't Stop Won't Stop - MLM Botwatch (11) Now Featuring MLMers who don't answer questions, jokes, posts by eyes, questions about Forever Living, Ariix, Itworks, Younique etc as scambralamas978

[Melaw21]

continued discussion of mlms!

Morning all, very late jumping on to this thread, will have a read through, but loving the TV merchandise

sminkypink The term used in law I believe is 'undue influence.' e.g. Deliberately putting someone under obligation to you in order to get them to do what you want.

One of the tricks which I saw my brother pulling in 'Amway,' was lending money to struggling persons in order for them to join his group. He did this by posing as a financial adviser, but he also went around with a real financial adviser who was an Ambot. Their advice was always to join 'Amway' and, if necessary to go into debt. My brother was not short of cash, he'd lived cheaply for years and saved his salary. He also had access to my mother's cash. My brother will have told his handlers everything about his own finances and those of his family, and they instructed him how to recruit.

My brother genuinely believed that by tricking people into joining 'Amway' he was ultimately helping them.

One young guy whom my brother recruited I knew because I'd gone to school with his older brother. He was unemployed and just married. I ran him by chance leaving my mother's home when I was visiting. He told me quite openly that my brother had lent about £1000 to buy and insure a second hand car, but only because he'd agreed to join 'Amway'. The car he'd bought was a piece of shit, but he was literally jumping in the air with joy.

My brother subsequently tried to pull a variation of the same obligation trick on me, but using his control of my family's capital.

legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/undue+influence

Recruiting bots from other mlms is an obvious tactic. In fact I am sure I have seen it suggested as part of mlm prospecting training.
After all an existing bot has already bought into the dream, probably doesn't care much about the products and would only need to be convinced by the payment plan.
Very much higher chance of recruiting someone like that than a cold prospect who may well have already turned down previous mlm "opportunities"

Much respect to yet another lady who has shown true strength by telling her story. It is these brave and honest people who will ultimately show these schemes for what they are. At the very least these people will be helping those not yet involved make an informed choice if / when they are approached.

That poor woman in the TV blog! Not only is she a new mum who doesn't want to return to work, but isolated and foreign as well. A recruiting boy's dream.

This is why FL bots and MLMs in general are self employed- so that the companies and other bots can shake their heads at this errant bot and say that they are not like that and neither is anyone else. But we all know there are many like that out there.

When you read the legal definition of Undue Influence, it's like reading a list of techniques found in 'MLM' recruitment training manuals. Predictably, our visiting shill Bots have been very insistent that no one is ever forced to join their 'MLM' schemes.

'Virtually any act of persuasion that over-comes the free will and judgment of another, including exhortations, importunings, insinuations, flattery, trickery, and deception, may amount to undue influence. Undue influence differs from duress, which consists of the intentional use of force, or threat of force, to coerce another into a grossly unfair transaction. Blackmail, Extortion, bad faith threats of criminal prosecution, and oppressive Abuse of Process are classic examples of duress.'

Citaborca Fortunately, your mind is still clear enough to accept the truth and you've not been that deeply involved, but you can see that once someone has gone far enough down the dark 'MLM' path, it can become impossible for him/her turn back and face the awful truth about what he/she has done.

That poor new mum in the latest TV post

Those days at home with her child should have been positive, fun and memorable not tainted by the permanent presence and pushiness of the FL woman.

Well done at getting out and coming forward.

Eyes, I'm not an expert but from that link you posted it doesn't seem like undue influence is the name of the crime, it's more a reason for setting aside a contract that you've been forced into entering. So the lady in the TV blog could set aside the contract with FL and get her money back, but no one would be prosecuted under criminal law as a result?

But if that's right there must be a crime that forcing someone to enter into a contract falls under. I'm hoping one of the lawyers will be along shortly to explain it to me!

darceybussell As ever, it's not quite as simple as that, because 'MLM' adherents are also being used as de facto agents to rob their own friends and relatives.

Anyone signing a contract with a so-called 'MLM' company, is the victim of a criminal fraud (as defined by the Fraud Act, 2006, sections 2,3, & 4), but the deceptive techniques being taught to unwitting 'MLM' recruiters also fall under the legal definition of undue influence.

In the case of Craig Morgan, his ex-wife was given detailed instructions by her Mindset handlers in how to manipulate and cheat him, and prevent him from complaining. My own experience with my Ambot brother, was pretty much the same. These matters fall under the legal definition of undue influence, but under the surface, there were criminals instructing persons like Craig's ex-wife and my brother, and profitting from the abuse which they inflicted.

I found that I couldn't file a criminal complaint against my brother and his handlers, because no one would accept it, but I then decided to tackle the wider issue of 'MLM' cultic racketeering rather than concentrate on trying to recover what had been taken from me personally. I felt that if I was involved in a lawsuit with my brother, it could damage my credibility.

Great thanks Eyes I understand it better now.

cita absolutely. I think FL are far more at fault than any individuals. They couldn't exist if individuals didn't ignore the FL policies. I worry even what sad stories there might be if one of the über bots ever escaped their clutches and told the true story

darcey - correct. Undue influence is a civil concept. It means you can set aside a contract /transaction that has been entered into.

however, I would love a criminal lawyer to take a look at these stories as I expect there have been criminal offences too

Place marking, my goodness I have really fallen behind! I need to go back to beginning of thread 10 as I'm lost now. Hi everyone :-) good work! Loving latest installment on the blog!

X-post eyes

Yes undoubtedly some bots are committing fraud. And quite possibly other offences too.

Has anyone heard of vi uk?

Just looking again at the Ariix "patent-pending" plan and I note that their diagram is resolutely NOT a pyramid inverted funnel. It's a rectangle, making it look all even and fair (with YOU at the top).

Smoke and bloody mirrors everywhere.

It's still getting on my tiits

And my heard is truly going out to the woman in the latest TV blog. I was a new mum in a foreign country myself (we moved to NL two months before DC1 was born) and I fell under the influence of a very unpleasant person - I didn't have a business relationship with her but it taints my early memories of my time with my fantastic first born - he was such an easy baby and I could have had such a wonderful time. Still makes me sad now, and I didn't have some Bot stalking me, just a very screwed-up frenemy.

throwingpebbles Thanks. You also see how difficult it is to bring these complex matters to trial. Often it takes cult victims many years of soul searching to work out what really happened, and in many cases cult victims never even try to work out the truth, because they never recover.

As far as I'm aware, there are no lawyers who are really specialist in cults in the UK, but there have been some with dubious connections to cults and to co-opted cult advisers.

My brother and his handlers first tricked my mother into signing over control of her wealth into his name whilst excluding me. He then was instructed in how to use his control of this wealth to pretend affinity with me and manipulate me into a position of dependence whilst giving me the illusion that I was making free choices. It was all part of a classic cult strategy to recruit me, but I'm of the opinion that my brother will never face the truth.

Once I started to examine how cults function, I was able to work out what my brother and his 'Amway' handlers had done almost instantaneously, but it took me years to come to terms with it. In fact, 20 years later, it still hurts somewhat.

Vi uk = Visalus or Body by Vi.
Search Google for Body by Vi or Visalus

www.lazymanandmoney.com/visalus-scam/

MLMwww.healthylivingheavylifting.com/body-by-vi-scam/

I agree, I think they are at fault. Look at the way they 'do business' it's damn weird. Look at this global rally video
It makes me want to shout, 'you are selling creams, not saving humanity!'
Now I used to work in sports (soccer and team sports), I also worked for some American sports companies. I've been an attendee at some lavish international conferences, five star fully expensed luxury all the way, we've been to Rome, the Caribbean, Vegas, Hollywood, Arizona (funnily enough). I've hosted trainings at these events (but the trainings were all product based, not about recruitment surprise surprise), we've had the celeb sports stars that we sponsor with us for the conferences, we've had famous bands play for the party, but for all the flash and schmaltziness I've seen, all the money I've seen pissed up the wall on these events, I still cannot square these lavish (genuine) business conferences with what I see the mlms doing. It is so completely different. They look like a cross between the world cup and an evangelical church. They're even expected to pay for flags and uniforms to wear. It's damn weird. Because it's a cult innit?

How many of these scamalambas are there?

Sry second link
www.healthylivingheavylifting.com/body-by-vi-scam/

I have a particular bee in my bonnet about cancer claims. If you search me you will see my son had leukaemia (is 2.5 years in remission and finished treatment 7 months ago) In fact this is what drew me to this subject - the disgusting claims about treating cancer or mitigating the effects of chemo. It's nothing short of disgusting (and genuinely criminal).

There's my "why" and yes it is strong enough.