MLM-BOT WATCH - continuing the talk about Juice +, Forever Living YOunique Arbonne

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Our very own Fake MN MLM is here:

timelessvie.wordpress.com - 8,700 views

www.facebook.com/timelessvie/ - 665 likes

twitter.com/timelessvie -80 followers

continue the chat, Botwatchers!

Motorheadmum Thanks. It just shows how important documentary evidence is, when dealing 'MLM' racketeers.

Although 'MLM' front companies all boast money back guarantees, people who have managed to get refunds from 'MLM' racketeers are quite rare. There are usually reams of small-print 'rules,' and contractual clauses, limiting refunds by date, and trying to prevent victims from complaining outside the 'MLM' organizations or going to court.

In general, 'MLM' racketeers will give refunds if they think victims are going to try to complain loudly to regulators, journalists, political representatives, etc. Recently, because of the ongoing investigations, 'Herbalife' has been handing out refunds left right and centre and pretending that the company strictly polices its own networks. Prior to the external investigation, it had taken class-action lawsuits before, compensation was offered.

In 2014, it was announced (but without supporting independent evidence) that more than 600 'Herbalife Distributors' had been 'diciplined for breaking the rules concerning medical claims,' but only 12 had been excommunicated canned.

Prior to the external investigation of Herbalife, the 'fairy story' implied that virtually no 'Distributor' had ever broken the rules.

Lovewine - the comments on JL's actual blog page are absolutely heartbreaking! I want to hug them and shout at them at the same time - you are not supposed to succeed! That is the whole point!!

I forgot to post the Link.

www.reuters.com/article/herbalife-idUSL2N0NF2HA20140424

lovewine those comments are really sad

When I read the Facebook pages of the FL people, it reminds me of bullies at school. They are over-nice and supportive when their downline agree with what they say, but as soon as they question FL or want to leave, the upline change the way they speak to them and about them.

They are really sad, I wasn't meaning to make light of them, just incredulously laughing at JLs "misguided" comment which is very cultish now I think about it. I agree this is heartbreaking and I know others like this who are putting all their trust, faith and probably money into forever in the belief that following the blueprint no matter what will lead to achievement of what, for the vast majority, is unattainable

Eyespying it wasn't easy, at first they were just going to refund the £54 consultant fee until I told the, I had been to trading standards and would take things further. They had to refund over £8,000 I know about. Luckily I kept everything and still have. I see so many people are still falling for it though. The White merc plan in still one of their favourite things to push with!

I have been thinking some more about the Data Protection Act - lovewine perhaps you can help. I can't get on to the Information Commissioners website at the minute but I had a quick look this morning. Do FL compliance provide training on the DPA? Under the direct marketing section it says that once someone has been informed they do not wish to receive marketing then they should not get any more. So I wonder if repeated approaches (eg via Facebook, text or email) once someone has said no once, would be a breach of the DPA?

For example' You can also email or text an existing customer who has bought (or discussed buying) a similar product or service from you in the past – but only if you gave them a clear chance to opt out of getting marketing emails or texts when you collected their details, and in every message.'

So much for 'going for no'!

Forever Living Products UK Ltd is registered with the ICO, (but I couldn't see any individual registrations that obviously related to anyone we have been discussing, which is odd given they are all individual businesses) - it may be very interesting for any ex FL people (or current ones, for that matter) to make a Subject Access Request, and then if necessary to ask them to stop processing their data on the individual.

Anyone with more knowledge than me like to comment?

Motorheadmum As I suspected, and I offer you my respect for achieveing what very few have ever achieved

Personally, I would have advised you to have sent a full list of all your direct, and indirect, losses including your time and emotional distress. You should then have placed a substantial monetary value on these losses (+ interest) and sent an itemised bill (by registered post) to Arbonne HQ demanding full payment along with a covering document detailing exactly why you consider that you had been deceived and defrauded.

If your bill had been been ignored, I would have then advised you to find a solicitor to file a straight forward bankruptcy petition in the High Court for non-payment of debt.

Arbonne would then have had the unenviable choice of paying up to stop the bankruptcy proceedings, or going to court to try explain why they are not a hiding a fraud and why they didn't owe you the money.

I wish I could say my bots have simmered down. I havr had several variation of this since yesterday -

"Bulk order going off tonight huns, get in fast as stock getting low. Avoid disappointment!!!" (Then a shit tonne of emojis)

Excuse my ignorace....but what the fuck else can your order be but bulk if you are a distributor? 😬🔫

I think that translates as 'minimum order I am allowed to make is £50, pleeease someone order something so I don't have to spend it all myself!'

From that screenshot that Lovewine posted.

'For someone to leave shows they are not strong enough to continue'. (More or less.)

Now that is truly ironic. From what has been seen here, it strikes me that the strongest people are those that have left.

I have been thinking a lot about this. I remember doing the self-assessment on the ICO website and it said I didn't have to register but I forget why-possibly because I wasn't holding salary and payroll details of employees. I must check again. To my knowledge Forever doesn't provide any DP training, there is just a clause buried deep within their terms and conditions saying business owners must comply with it. An approach out of the blue, by FB, e-mail rtf is the equivalent of a cold call. If an individual asks not to be contacted again about this, to do so is a breach of the DPA. Also taking details for a 'prize draw' or survey then using them to contact people about the products or business is a breach and I believe this is commonly done.

Agreed cozietoesie

I certainly have much more empathy and respect for those who have had the guts to stand up and say "enough!" Imagine how low these people must be feeling, the bots have a brass neck having a go at those who are brave enough to want out and do it.

Lots of 'stroking' required for those in the 'inner sanctum' at the moment, I assume - to buoy any flagging spirits. I feel such sympathy for them - and such respect for those who - as you said - cried Enough! Much courage indeed.

Here is the full details of the FL registration with the DPA:

Start extract

Reasons/purposes for processing information

We process personal information to enable us to promote our goods and services, to maintain our accounts and records and to support and manage our staff.

Type/classes of information processed

We process information relevant to the above reasons/purposes. This may include:
•personal details
•family, lifestyle and social circumstances
•financial details
•employment and education details
•goods or services provided

We also process sensitive classes of information that may include:
•physical or mental health details
•racial or ethnic origin
•religious or other beliefs of a similar nature
•trade union membership

Who the information is processed about

We process personal information about our:
•employees
•customers and clients
•suppliers and services providers
•advisers, consultants and other professional experts
•complainants and enquirers

Who the information may be shared with

We sometimes need to share the personal information we process with the individual themself and also with other organisations. Where this is necessary we are required to comply with all aspects of the Data Protection Act (DPA). What follows is a description of the types of organisations we may need to share some of the personal information we process with for one or more reasons.

Where necessary or required we share information with:
•family, associates and representatives of the person whose personal data we are processing
•employment and recruitment agencies
•current, past and prospective employers
•educators and examining bodies
•central government
•credit reference agencies
•suppliers and service providers
•debt collection and tracing agencies
•financial organisations

Consultancy and Advisory Services

Information is processed for consultancy and advisory services that are offered. For this reason the information processed may include name, contact details, family details, financial details, and the goods and services provided. This information may be about customers and clients. Where necessary this information is shared with the data subject themselves, business associates and other professional advisers, current, past or prospective employers and service providers.

Undertaking Research

Personal information is also processed in order to undertake research. For this reason the information processed may include name, contact details, family details, lifestyle and social circumstances, financial details, good and services. The sensitive types of information may include physical or mental health details, racial or ethnic origin and religious or other beliefs. This information is about survey respondents. Where necessary or required this information may be shared with customers and clients, agents, service providers, survey and research organisations.

Trading and Sharing Personal Information

Personal information is traded and shared as a primary business function. For this reason the information processed may include name, contact details, family details, financial details, employment details, and goods and services. This information may be about customers and clients. The information may be traded or shared with business associates and professional advisers, agents, service providers, customers and clients, and traders in personal data.

Transfers

It may sometimes be necessary to transfer personal information overseas. When this is needed information may be transferred to countries or territories around the world. Any transfers made will be in full compliance with all aspects of the data protection act.

End extract

I really think this may be worth thinking about further. Lovewine thanks for thinking more - happy to help where I can (no DPA knowledge but plenty of experience in reading legislation etc).

It appears virtually certain that some, if not all, FL business owners will be breaking the DPA in some way, either by not registering, or not complying, or both. And by not training them, FL itself is not exactly covering itself in glory is it?

Perhaps we could produce a presentation for TimelessVie - 'Why you are almost certainly breaking the law if you have a FL business'?

And I know that there are other ways they are (possibly) breaking the law - but sometimes it is easier to go down the administration compliance route than a criminal route. As someone said above, the Information Commissioner does have teeth to fine if necessary.

Do they never wonder why there are so many 'haters' out there? I can honestly say I have never once been hated on because of my profession. In the past I have worked really hard and family members might have briefly questioned whether it was right for me but I have never come across any 'naysayers' or 'dream stealers'. However somehow they are prolific in network marketing - alarm bells should be ringing like mad!

Motorhead I'm full of admiration for you for getting yourself out, and for having the tenacity to get your money back. It's a shame you were having to go through that at a time when I expect you just wanted to focus on your child, but I'm glad the outcome was good in the end.

The 'misguided' comment on JL's page! Urgh. That is so culty- sounds so much like religious evangelists wanting people to see the light about Jesus/God/Allah/whoever.

Eyespy The link you posted with the discussion of aloe and its benefits for IBS made me so annoyed. All that about 'customer testimonials' and 'our clients are our best advertisement'. So disingenuous- those two 'customers'/'clients' are bloody FLbots 'business owners'. It's deliberately misleading, isn't it?