MLM bot watch - Discussion of the network marketing companies Forever Living, Herbal Life, Juice Plus etc as a pyramid scheme or scam

[CheekySmile]

Continuing the discussion of the various network marketing schemes or multi-level marketing schemes (MLMs) that people we know are involved in.

If you have a bot of your own then join us and share what they are saying!

Or if you are researching a company before signing up to be a network marketer please take a look at the previous bot watch thread and also this thread which delves deeper into the workings of MLMs.

And don't forget our very own MN MLM Timeless Vie!
www.facebook.com/timelessvie
www.twitter.com/timelessvie

Siwi, exactly that! It sounds so far fetched at first but the more you think about it the parallels with Scientology et al make perfect sense! At the time this was happening we couldn't help but to come back to the undewhelming evidence that she was being brainwashed by her "new friends". Because we asked some awkward questions, because we were concerned for her, and wouldnt join, she was told to get rid of us. I have no proof they told her to do that but I can't imagine her getting rid of a whole group of close friends for any other reason (maybe I'm naive?). Her personality has changed completely! I don't see her doing the same if we had expressed concerns about her previous job.

I tried reaching out to her yesterday... didn't mention fl just told her I missed her and her baby (my god child) but nothing suppose that's that and if she ever snaps out of it to just be here for her.

MLM's are evil.

Letter is a fake, as you all know anyway.

The language is a dead give away "amazingly" for example

Yuck!

Iore
May I ask how you found this thread? Ie, was it Google or were you already on mn?
If former, what was the wording of your googling?

I'm so sorry clockworkjelly that your friend is ignoring you :( You aren't far off, the training is subtle but we're told to cut anything negative from your life. Even friends that won't 'support' you in your new venture that are really just looking out for your welfare

A lot go as far as not watching any news in the world as that can affect your mindset. What with all the terrible things that are happening around the world, plus tv is a distraction and stops you from contacting people.

I honestly wish I'd done more research into it all before I joined, I think it would have been a different decision. When I got a promoted everyone is congratulating you and telling you have wonderful you are doing and how great it is for your family, but then if things slow down it's a different story.

Just be there for your friend when she needs you, that's all you can do, and don't tell her 'I told you so' as if/when she comes to her senses she'll be feeling pretty vulnerable.

Ray, you are invaluable.

It looks like the woman holding that letter could do with using the propolis on her finger.
She should be setting a good example.

Ray, what were people like if you wernt "doing well" and getting "promotions". Just out of curiosity. We only hear on FB when people have been "promoted". Would be interesting to hear about the other side of it.

If Emma Cooper and her husband are doing so well with forever why does he need to work at a gym as a personal trainer? I guess someone's got to keep a real salary coming in.

www.facebook.com/shauncooperpt/
mobile.twitter.com/shauncooperpt

Hmm Gimlet, I agree but those social media accounts haven't been updated in months. Both him and EC do have their pro planner business though.

www.facebook.com/myproplanner.co.uk

Oh my, it is so like Amway, isn't it? Brainwashing peripharal supplies.

I did ask a while back about selling FL and being on sick leave (one of our staff members). Blatantly all over FB and eating meals/out at 'the office' (starbucks) but not available to work until Mid Jan.......

How can I nail her?

siwi I think it was searching Forever Living on MN search.

But I also Googled 'Forever Living' and an old MLM MN thread came up.

Thanks for this thread and others experiences of losing friends and family to this cult-like scam. I'm sure I was cut off because of my questions negativity.

Here you go, exactly the same as the way that the Amway diamonds made their fortunes. But this time it's not $12 tapes, its a download for forty seven quid! Flippin heck. I seem to remember from Merchants of deception that this was the actual scam, that the six figure incomes do not come from where you think they do and unless you're at the top of the pyramid and you're not a charismatic bullshitter speaker, you're not gonna be making any money.
I wonder what the results of the brainwashing mindset training is? A subliminal message to buy more downloads/courses/ cds ?
www.superachievermindset.com/diamond-mindset-secrets/

'Unconscious closed eye processes designed to rewire your brain.' This is terrifying.

emma, this article may help you. A lot will depend on what she is off sick with.

Very sad news you've lost a friend through the evil of FL, clockwork - though Ray has worded very nicely how you should best handle things if/when she returns to planet earth. How people drop friends like that is just beyond comprehension. Then again, we haven't been brainwashed.

Loving the insights to MLMs. It's great to have some escapees share stories from inside.

The mindset tape thing reminds me of a recording of Warren Jeffs ('prophet' of one of the Mormon sects) I once listened to. He has a lovely soothing voice but the words are very disturbing, especially in the knowledge that he is behind bars for paedophilia. The man is evil but so very good at convincing people, just like those in charge of MLMs.

I should add that not all groups within the Mormon faith are bad...

Interesting link, slinky.

This is more evidence that it is the development and selling of books, CD's and other materials where the real money is made.

It is a double whammy too because these fl-bots are going to buy this stuff at "success days" in order to help them be more effective at recruiting and selling fl products. And we are talking about significant amounts of money too. Adding this to their monthly 1CC of fl products they have to buy...

So they are going to listen to this motivational stuff or read it, every day in order to follow the dream of emulating NH, EC and others.

At what point does it dawn on fl-bots that this whole industry is based on lies and deceit and that in order to have any chance to succeed they have to immerse themselves in that culture of deceit?

At what point do fl-bots, drawn to the "spend more time with my kids", "only work 5 hours a day" memes, actually sit down and reflect that they are not going to succeed unless they spend 24-7 actively searching for new downlines/customers; every single social situation an opportunity to promote fl. At this point they will have already exhausted family, friends, colleagues, neighbours etc., and probably irritated them.

The nine to five is sounding pretty damn good, actually.

clockwork I have also lost my friend to mlm - to 'it works' ( ironic! )
I am not saying anything against her 'business' nor buying into it either. I am hoping she comes to her senses soon but as she has sold her own business in order to concentrate on 'it works' Im not sure how long I will have to wait.
Sorry no help just wanted to say your not on your own!

I wonder if I have a friend who has a friend who is a mumsnetter? A facebook friend was tagged with lots of others about an 'amazing opportunity' and this reply made me smile
So what year are you in X and what is your income ? Can you show proof. That's the best way to show people z genuine opportunity

Hi if you're here!

I have to say, I have never had as much interest in flp/mlm's as I do now.
There have been so many views on these posts that open your eyes to another side of these businesses.
I am amazed at the sheer genius of how crafty it all is. I'm not applauding it, but I have to admit, it's very clever.

Have mlm companies always been promoted in the way most have been experiencing.
Surely before Facebook or the Internet it must have been done differently?
People only need more than one mlmer on their news feed to see how very similar and disingenuous they are being.

Fb in the beginning would have been an advantage. It is used by so many people you instantly have a large audience.
But surely it must become a disadvantage too when people just post the same things?
People must see how very similar and disingenuous it is?

When I researched forever a few years ago I found more good reviews than bad.
It seems now though that there is a lot more concern about it.

penny1ane in the Amway days it was all done face to face, offline. People bought tapes, now its Youtube and downloads. It was the internet that did for Amway. FLbots are encouraged to swamp the web with content eith the word 'scam' in in order to push these links to the top of Google and hide any criticism. It doesn't really work though, threads like this get lots of hits and are way more content rich than the ones the bots post. Google likes compelling, genuine, relevant content. I.e. This thread. Its becoming more difficult to fool it. I note that Jayne Leach is encouraging the bots to go offline. I do think people are getting sick of the content that bota put up on social media, it is all fake and all the same.
As for the money made from downloads. My partner, like me, is self employed and one of the sites he webmasters sells obsure country music 78's for download. It cost barely anything to set up and maintain. So we reckon most of that £47 download will be profit. It's not a sophisticated website at all, won't take much maintenance. If every bot at the big NEC success day bought the £47 download then the site would turnover £258,500. Not bad. If they all buy Emma Coopers planner then she turns over £165,000 , although her production costs and overheads do look much higher, I reckon the planner is about £3 - £5 to produce.
We need a Parslai Planner!

Homework for the holidays: send Jayne Leaches website link to some friends , because for some bizarre coincidental reason I am friends with three doctors of neuroscience, I'm sure they'd gladly pick that website apart.

Dyslmimi, hmm. That sounds familiar denies everything.

Dyslmimi , have a look at my post 18th December, four oclock ish

Jayne Leaches training is reading like an NLP/hypnosis scam, now. For a start, there's not much scientific evidence that NLP even works.
But would you trust people like this to hypnotise you, when you don't know their ulterior motive? (Well we do, but many FLbots don't). I bloody wouldn't trust them!
They mention Law of attraction. I hate law of attraction, it is evil and victim blaming. Didn't sell enough aloe darling? it's all your fault, you didn't think positively enough. Heres a good essay about LOA.

www.debunkingskeptics.com/LawofAttraction.htm

Here's some red flags regarding some claims made about NLP, spot any of them on Jaynes website? She's a con artist, hurting people and telling untruths for wealth. I wonder how she sleeps at night?

inlpcenter.org/lies/
and New Neural Pathways? What a crock of shite. We are more than verging on the cosmic woo territory, here.

Sminky, that person who had posted on my local neighbourhood forum was an NLP practitioner too, as well as promoting aloe vera . She's not posted since our little chat .

The second link is very interesting, too. I have a bit of knowledge about how to create new neural pathways to change behaviour you don't want (i.e. to make better choices with food). It is not an instant fix, not at all; it can take years.