MLM bot watch - Discussion of the network marketing companies Forever Living, Herbal Life, Juice Plus etc as a pyramid scheme or scam

[CheekySmile]

Continuing the discussion of the various network marketing schemes or multi-level marketing schemes (MLMs) that people we know are involved in.

If you have a bot of your own then join us and share what they are saying!

Or if you are researching a company before signing up to be a network marketer please take a look at the previous bot watch thread and also this thread which delves deeper into the workings of MLMs.

And don't forget our very own MN MLM Timeless Vie!
www.facebook.com/timelessvie
www.twitter.com/timelessvie

My FL Bot is ramping it up now. A pinned post at the top of her page targeting mums on maternity leave. (Which is when she joined incidentally)

An amazing raffle to win a clean 9. Tickets only a fiver. Follow up posts to let us know that they are selling fast and that there are only a few left (not a single 'like' or comment on any of these posts though)

My particular favourite has to be her chatting to the retail staff when she was doing her Christmas shopping, handing out business cards and telling them what she does. She is sure they will be in contact because they are fed up working in retail, especially at this time of year. I fear she has become confused and not realised that they were in fact fed up listening to her prattle on while a huge queue built up behind her

I've had a look at a few of the global business mentor pages since I switched Facebook back on again. Most are tumbleweed, no comments at all. They are all gonna be unbearable in the New Year.

I agree sminky how it is all set up to keep people interested. It definitely works too.
People feel like they are part of something big at the success days. They are in the same room as the big earners. By spending time in a hall full of positive people gets their hearts pounding and ready to take their business to the next level.
Even those not earning money will feel they have something special. Just to be able to say they are a business owner means to them that they are doing something with their lives.
I met people that didn't sell products, didn't make calls to recruit but just felt like they were part of something. I did feel sad for those ones. Maybe they had been a bit of an outsider growing up and forever welcomed them with open arms.

which is exactly how other cults like the moonies, etc operate - making people feel part of somethng bigger and amazing.

Its funny because all those fancy lights, the music, they remind me so much of Scientology and David Miscavige's appearances on stage in on of the Scientology Docu's. They are so so alike.

I do understand the buzz you feel penny1ane I used to get something very similar when I acted in amateur theatre many moons ago and I was rubbish It is addictive esp when you are in a life that's quite restrictive like being a parent to small kids and its one of those things that's entirely yours; you cling onto it.

Some years ago when I was at a low ebb, I attended a religious meeting which I found very overwhelming; lovely rousing music etc. I went down at the end to chat to someone, feeling like I was part of something special.

The spell was broken when the person I was chatting to (who I knew in real life and liked) said that I would go to hell if I didn't repent. It was like I'd had a bucket of cold water thrown over me, the spell was broken. I walked out and never returned. Religion is a no-no to me now I won't be threatened or blackmailed.

I can well believe that these companies use effective techniques to mesmerise their followers; projecting love, acceptance, a sense of belonging, but withdrawing it all once you start to question it all, leaving an empty void. It must be hard to dare to question what's going on and risk being alienated and rejected by your peers.

It is like Scientology. I can totally see the attraction and the camaradarie, the postivity, hugs and cheering. I do get it, but isn't it vile that it is ultimately being used in a dishonest way to make money for Rex. And if you don't become indoctrinated and compliant and you leave, you are victim blamed. How horrible.
I mean, how many six figure incomes are there, really? The evidence is not there. They post up inspirational memes because there is nothing real to share. My FLbot keeps going on about six figure incomes, but Id be surprised ( from what others say) if she is making more than £800 net, a month. Natalie Heeley may be, but Emma Cooper has filed no accounts, yet. Let's see. And we can see, from other filed accounts, that some of the other big names are clearly not being honest. Either that or they are committing tax evasion.

Long time lurker in these parts but felt the need to join to share my experience.

I have a very good friend who joined FL about 12 months ago through some one she had met randomly at a baby group. Anyway, at first our group of friends were cautious but supportive, bought the odd bit here and there (the heat gel is no better than deep heat imo and about 3 times the price) and she never really pushed it to us on fb or in person to any real extent. However, about April she went bat shit crazy for the stuff, hounding us day and night to join her and "we could earn sooooooo much more selling this AMAZING product than working for the corporation and trading our hours for money" (I quote!) She was going to training days, telling us she wasn't going back to work after her maternity leave was up, she was spamming everyone, constant fb updates and her dh was going to get her a loan so she could really push her new business and make them millionaires in less than 2 years- sounds familiar right?

We all expressed concern. Begged her to go back to work and see how it went etc but were told we couldn't see the truth (VERY religious,almost evangelical!) And if we wouldn't help her she didn't need us, she had all these amazing people that understood her and cared so much for her and her business plans. I asked her mum to speak to her, but she had already ropped her mum in to bloody selling the stuff with/for her. We couldn't understand what had happened to her! She was so driven for her career that she had already established and all this talk of leaving it... We just couldn't understand.

Long story short - she cut our group out of her life after another friend questioned a post on fb about the cost of the products and the abilities she claimed they had (I think it was that it would manage ibs). Just dead. Sent us all a message that we are negative influences on her life and her success and she doesn't need that to bring her down.

That was around June/July and last i heard she had given up her job. Sadly looking through this thread it's a recurring theme

Comment from David Brear:

And a photo of a yacht printed on a piece of cardboard is not a yacht. Not my yacht, not your yacht, not an FL 'business owner's' yacht. It's a made up fantasy. The whole FL thing is photos of stuff that isn't true, on cardboard/on social media, not real. If you really want a flippin yacht like that, go and bloody get one, cheaper than you think. Price of an ordinary car. Got a mate who sacked off her job, bought a yacht like that, sailed Greek islands. Shes not rich. She didn't need to bore anyone to death, nor buy loads of aloe shite. She didnt stand infront of a picture of a yacht and share it on social media.

I'm not sure whether I believe the story of the guy doing it 20 years. But, I may be wrong though. There's a lot of mystery around forever. All you need is a few guys like that in your team and you would have a nice income.

I know it may be hard to believe, and some may not want to believe it, but I think there are some people in forever that make ridiculous amounts of money ( rolf kipp, Jane and john)
Some people make a very good living.
Some people make a nice living.
Some people next to nothing.

Those earning a lot of money will have built global business's and have many managers in their team.

I'm neither for or against forever, products or earnings.

I'm just against the way it is currently promoted and the bragging of lifestyle.
Of course, the lifestyle is not true for some but is for others.

I have friends that have been successful through hard work and getting into careers that pay very well. They are very humble and down to earth.
They also have their family and friends close by them too.

penny1ane I am pretty sure those who appear to be earning 'loads' aren't earning it from forever living but off the back of it. Writing books targeted at FL bots, offering training days, those overpriced bloody planners and whatever else they can slap the 'perfect for network marketing!' slogan onto.

They use forever living as a spring board. They attend all the success days, offer themselves up to give talks whenever and where ever they can, for free at first I'm sure and it grows from there its just that their target audience is those who are already indoctrinated into the system.

I have see new FL bots fresh into the system clamouring to get their hands on the books, the planners etc because other bots tell them they are essential.

The money they earn isn't from forever living, not by a long stretch. The amount of product alone they would have to shift ,even with the manager discounts and downline income added, is a ridiculous amount given what the best bots allegedly earn. So its obvious the money is coming in from elsewhere.

From what I can gather Forever living earnings are like pocket money and the best bots are just selling themselves and their own products under the 'forever living business/lifestyle coach' banner but the worst of it is all the money they actually are earning is them ploughed back into forever living with the car plans and holidays and more training days or making up their monthly CCs to keep their manager titles.

Thing is though, with all the 'best' bots doing the exact same thing with CDs, DVDs, books and such their earnings are actually really low because its an over saturated market. I haven;t even touched upon taking expenses into account, petrol, telephone calls, business card and flyer printing, website costs, branding, stock etc. They really do the 'fake it until you make it' but I don't believe any of them ever truly make it. Its all smoke an mirrors :(

Lp

Sorry that was random. Accidental post.

I think even the people who claim to have 'made it' are living well beyond their means in order to look like they are even richer. Emma Cooper is only claiming to make as much as a partner at a law or accountancy firm, but she is spending way way more than they would spend in order to sell the dream to everyone else. Even if she is being honest I wouldn't be surprised if she is still in debt.

She claims she earned £123k in her first year, I think on one of the forever success days she said she was earning £13k per month after 8 or 9 months. I wonder will she say anywhere how much she will have earned this year?

She's now a sapphire manager (at least 9 managers in your direct downline) so now she gets something called a 'gem bonus" which Forever claims is where the big money is made.

AL is a diamond sapphire (at least 17 managers) and ages ago while she was sapphire she said somewhere she was earning at least 35k per month.

bettyberry They don't need to shift a lot of product, for everyone you recruit you get paid a bonus, then for everyone they recruit into your team you also get paid down 3 levels, so if you have loads of managers in your team (EC said there was about 130 in hers - not all first generation) you're going to be getting a good bonus each month.

But it's all smoke and mirrors, there's a lot of managers who are working part time to supplement their income (the ones who aren't qualifying for big cheques) and also because with being self employed they can't get a mortgage alone for the first 2 years or so.

I was just going on that interview where she said she made £45k in a month, I assume she won't make that every month as it will go up and down, but if you are generous that is £500kish gross for the year, similar to a law or accountancy firm partner, but she will have some expenses to deduct too, and 47% tax and NI

Hmm

I am in no doubt some people earn big money, however these are the people right at the top. Most of the money is cyclic money, there will be some from product selling to those outside FL but not enough to sustain that type of salary. The rest is the same money going in and out and in again.

Sminky, I just dont think consultants would write a letter naming non-prescription products as a cure for an ailment. Surely if that was the case then herbal remedies would be mentioned too. Cant help thinking its two seperate letters. The one naming the aloe vera products is a fake. Why not show the whole letter. I notice its over a year ago too. Dont know how they get awaywith it.

That 'consultant' has suspiciously bot-like grammar...

Clockwork, you have been branded 'negative' in the same way that Scientology brands pp who criticise them are 'Suppressive Persons'.

JWs use 'shunning'

Cults can't afford to have rational pp asking rational questions around. So they are demonised.

In fact, I think that JWs are told to beware of agents of satan. So when anxious parents try to get their children out, they are viewed As agents of satan.

What is the gist of that nhs letter, please?

the gist is that the dermatologist is discharing a 'gorgeous child' from the clinic because the propopolis/aloe/snake oil cream has cured his skin condition.

I found this thread when I was researching FL after a close family member started last year. DH said its a pyramid selling scheme, but as I had never heard of them before I wanted to know more.
I am almost NC with this family member now - I have lost them to FL
There was a recruitment attempt (I laughed as I thought they were joking) and obviously the hard sell - but I couldn't afford the products even if I wanted them.

It's all so

Re consultant letter, reading between the lines ...

Child had eczema. Mother chose "gentle" products such as Johnson's Baby, but eczema persisted even when GP prescribed Oilatum cream.

Finally mother got a consultant dermatologist appointment for child.

Whilst waiting, she tried FL products instead of Johnson's and skin miraculously improved. When dermatologist saw child, skin was fine.

Correlation does not imply causation.