MLM bot watch - Discussion of the network marketing companies Forever Living, Herbal Life, Juice Plus etc as a pyramid scheme or scam

[CheekySmile]

Continuing the discussion of the various network marketing schemes or multi-level marketing schemes (MLMs) that people we know are involved in.

If you have a bot of your own then join us and share what they are saying!

Or if you are researching a company before signing up to be a network marketer please take a look at the previous bot watch thread and also this thread which delves deeper into the workings of MLMs.

And don't forget our very own MN MLM Timeless Vie!
www.facebook.com/timelessvie
www.twitter.com/timelessvie

Well, I had a reply of sorts this morning...

^HI xxxx, thanks or sharing your comments and thoughts and you are quite right to set out those standards. I can only speak from my own experience with aloe products, I've been using them at home for about the last 5 years and have found the Forever brand the better products of the ones that I have tried

I do not have any "downline" and do from time to time suggest to others if I think worth a try of something that I have personally used to help them with a particular thing.

From the reading I've been doing around aloe in general it appears to have some very interesting properties and a long history of use. I hope that clarifies, xxxx.^

I haven't replied yet , but I had an even more interesting private message from another local, as follows:-

^Hi xxxx,

I'd just like to thank you for (very diplomatically) nipping a potential nuisance in the bud. You've probably done many people a favour.

Regards,

xxxx^

I am so pleased to have had this response. I replied as follows:-

^I really appreciate your message, xxxx.

I have been involved in another forum where we have researched and discussed at length the nature of MLM companies and our research has uncovered a real world-wide horror story.

I am very wary therefore of anyone who promotes these companies because I know that they are only interested in getting sales and, even more crucially, signing people up as their downline (they will make a % of money from their downlines' sales).

Overwhelming evidence shows that the vast majority of people who are involved in these pyramid-type schemes end up spending a lot of personal money and a lot of time trying to make any money. They also exploit their family, friends, colleagues, or anyone they meet socially in order to secure sales.

Only those at the top of the scheme stand any chance of making money.

The more facts I have uncovered the more disturbing it is. I am reading Merchants of Deception at the moment. It was written by Eric Scheibeler who was a supposedly very successful Amway distributor, but who eventually managed to leave. It is very disturbing and gives a very good insight into the workings of MLM companies.

Here is a link if you are interesting in having a look: www.transgallaxys.com/~emerald/files/MerchantsOfDeception.pdf

I have had a reply from xxxx today. Here is it-

HI xxxxx, thanks or sharing your comments and thoughts and you are quite right to set out those standards. I can only speak from my own experience with aloe products, I've been using them at home for about the last 5 years and have found the Forever brand the better products of the ones that I have tried. I do not have any "downline" and do from time to time suggest to others if I think worth a try of something that I have personally used to help them with a particular thing. From the reading I've been doing around aloe in general it appears to have some very interesting properties and a long history of use. I hope that clarifies, xxxxx.

xxxxx is right that aloe vera is used widely but clinical trials have not been completed that suggest it has medical properties. It is widely available at a fraction of the price that Forever Living sells it at. Indeed, I bought a triple pack of aloe vera lip balms recently for a £1! Its not expensive.

I am glad that another local person is aware that this person may use the forum and the Ladies Group to try and recruit or sell this stuff. Please stay vigilant.
Regards,
xxxx^

So, as far the FL local is concerned, I will just send a closing response, something like "Thanks for your reply xxxx. I hope the information I have supplied will help people to make their own minds up. Google is a great vehicle for doing personal research about multi level marketing companies and their questionable behaviour. The more people can learn about them, the more they can be protected. Have a peaceful and enjoyable Christmas everyone, preferably with no snow! Regards, xxxxx.

That ok?

Well, the italics didn't work . Hope you are able to read it ok.

sounds good faff

thanks for the link xenu I've added it. it looks a very well written article.

I've read that Baffler article recently, perhaps on the other thread . It is a very good description of the total insanity of Amway and a true insight into how MLM companies are run. I remember feeling sorry for the couple described in the story too .

As an aside, someone on the neighbourhood forum has commented "that's you told, xxxxx!"

I haven't replied to the FL-bot's comment yet. Will wait a while.

yes, timing is everything, grasshopper. bwa hahaha.

Just wanted to say a general thankyou to everyone on the threads who has contributed screenshots, posts, jokes, commiserations, ideas, memes, feedback etc. We could not do it without all of you. up to 272 likes on FB and well over 3,000 views on the blog. I'm starting to think maybe we mere mumsnetters can really make a difference. Go us.

And if you're lurking, don't be afraid to join in.

and also thanks to Eyes for giving us the depth and breadth of his knowledge

Hi, I've been reading this discussion for a while now, back from the original post.
I have to say it has made a very interesting read and opened my eyes a little.
I am, dare I say it.......... an ex flpbot.
Shall I get my coat?
I only did the business for a while a few years ago and any money I made went on training etc
It was quite enjoyable to start with because it was something new.
It all after a while became a bit like groundhog day.
You become a vulture. Any conversation you have with somebody you listen for key things, something that will link what they have said to either the business or product. You never really paid attention to what they say.
I think I was lucky that I never really pursued it to the point I alienated my friends and family. I just preyed on the general public.
I did get sucked in for a while though. It's hard not to. We all wish for the best in life and when you are told by so many other flpers that you can create the life you dream of you start to believe it.
They did it and they are there to help you do it!!
When I realised that to make it in forever you really do have to sell your soul and you have to commit your time to forever over anything else I decided it wasn't for me.
It is good to see discussions like this offering people a different view on flp/mlm's.
There are a lot of people out there that would love the chance to change their life and flp may seem a good option.
From my experience though I would suggest learning something new that you would like to make a career in.

Well done for noticing before you got too sucked in, Penny. Would be good to have more of your experiences and insights here.

New MLMbot low. A Nuyou (or some similar name) decided to add a 'gift bag' (long boring letter about how great the products are a bag full of shite samples) to a Christmas appeal I did via the school this year. The appeal was for gift bags and stockings of presents for children in our local domestic abuse refuges. Can't decide if I should just return it to school next term saying it was put in in error or if to contact the #bossbabe via her fb page. Fuckers.

Or maybe I'll just post a link to this thread on her page...

Welcome, Penny .

We welcome posts from ex-flbots and are particularly interested in hearing about your experiences, and you've already read those by ray further up the thread.

What you've said about continually looking for people to talk about fl to or sell to or recruit bears out what we figured. You cannot enjoy socialising because you are always looking for customers/downline.

You're exactly right about MLMs being an attractive option. They are dressed up and promoted as such in order to attract attention. Sadly the reality is rather different for the majority.

Did you get a lot of support from your upline? How and why did you leave?

welcome penny

clarins that is very low. fuckers.

I know. I checked all of the gift bags before taking them to the refuge to make sure that they were labelled so that staff would know roughly what was in them. Imagine if some poor child had received whitening toothpaste! God knows what she was thinking.

www.debunkingskeptics.com/Multi-Level-Marketing.htm

Found this link, interesting read. Could be added to TV webpage.

Jesus Christ. I've been mostly lurking here but reading with interest. The person who donated FLcrap to the refuge needs a swift, public kick up the arse. I'd be contacting the school and bringing it to their attention too. Trying to rip off the vulnerable seems to be par for the course with these companies but that's a whole new low.

My thoughts exactly maman. My only reservation is that I see the bot as a victim. A serious level of brainwashing must have gone on to make her think that was ok. This makes me more likely to privately rather than publicly tackle her.

If you go on Twitter, you will see FLbots tagging diabetes charities, for instance. The charities must be sick of them. All ethics go out of the window in the desperation for new fresh meat to add to your downline. I finished Merchants of Deception, it was frightening. It's made me look at the big time FLbots in a very different way. It's made me wonder how little they are actually earning - Ambots were made to sell property, get loans, borrow from family and created the illusion of wealth with furs and second hand Cadillcs. Ambots, too went on about six figure residual income when the truth was, many of the top ones could not earn more than $4000 net profit a year. It was the internet that destroyed Amway, but I think the internet is being used in a clever way by FL. They had training tapes, we've now got new thought and youtube videos. Ambots had Cadillacs, FLBots have photos of holiday resorts on Facebook. The brainwashing is still the same though. Only they call it mindset training.

It's interesting, sminky that a particular "successful" fl-bot has recently sold her own house and coincidentally given her parents a cheque for £100,000 to pay them back for a previous loan (which they could easily not cash, it could easily just be for show).

She gives the impression that this 'payback' is as a result of FL income she's made, quote on her fb page:-
"Today I paid them back in full. I'm so grateful to all involved in my journey that have enabled me to do that. So many people before me who had the courage to start their own businesses & to enable me the chance to help change my families lives & those who I'm not part of their team who have made a huge impact on me!"

That certainly gives the impression that her achievements in fl have enabled her to pay back the money from the £000,000's she has earned with the company.

I wish we had screen-shotted the quote she made a few months ago when she implied that she had bought a castle that had been featured in GD. She only changed the comment to "renting to see if it fits" when someone challenged her. It is more lies and deceit, smoke and mirrors, that we have read in Merchants of Deception. Even the rent of the property is not true, as it is a commercial let not a private let. More lies, more deceit .

Pissed off now need to think happy thoughts .

This just appeared on my bots page...I always look to Donald Trump for inspiration on a Saturday morning!!

Yeah that's a fair challenge, Clarins. I'm sure at least part of them things they're doing people a favour by peddling the stuff.

*thinks. Sorry, I've had one hours sleep!

stopfaffing exactly, I cannot see any evidence of six figure incomes and when you find FLBots company director reports, you have the proof of the illusion. They are not earning much. They need those 'free' holidays as that money is not gonna go far at all. My bot posts holiday memes but I can't see any evidence of any holidays. It makes me laugh that they all stood infront of that yacht photo. And I wonder how many have husbands who are bankrolling it? Are the big FLbots relying on training, tapes and courses to pay the bills like the Ambots at diamond level, did? It looks like it to me as the courses aren't cheap. I challenged one bot on paying for courses and she defended her upline by saying the money goes to them for their time, not FL. Sound familiar?

I also noticed that, although this flbot posted about selling her home and buying a castle, she hasn't mentioned on fb that her house has actually been sold. I guess that it would make even staunch fl babes raise an eyebrow to wonder whether the sale money paid off the loan. Or maybe not .

sminky, when you stop and think about it, it's insane

It is, I urge anyone thinking about this, or who has a friend involved in this to read Merchants of Deception. It will open your eyes to what a nasty controlling scam/cult many mlms actually are. It's dangerous, if you get out early without losing too much money (and your mind) then you are lucky. I now understand how pointless it is to challenge the indoctrinated FLbots. They have been brainwashed so they think you are an idiot dream stealing negative loser.