MLM bot watch - Discussion of the network marketing companies Forever Living, Herbal Life, Juice Plus etc as a pyramid scheme or scam

[CheekySmile]

Continuing the discussion of the various network marketing schemes or multi-level marketing schemes (MLMs) that people we know are involved in.

If you have a bot of your own then join us and share what they are saying!

Or if you are researching a company before signing up to be a network marketer please take a look at the previous bot watch thread and also this thread which delves deeper into the workings of MLMs.

And don't forget our very own MN MLM Timeless Vie!
www.facebook.com/timelessvie
www.twitter.com/timelessvie

Going back to the accounts, the large creditor will be her. When you sell goodwill etc to a ltd company from a sole trader, there are two entries, one is an intangible asset, the other entry is either the actual bank payment for the goodwill, or a credit to the directors loan account. This credit in the directors loan account can be drawn down by the director any time and is tax free. One thing to bear in mind though, the director would have had a very large personal capital gains bill to pay on the sale of goodwill. A balance sheet is a snapshot of a company on that day, It doesn't show the profitability of the company only the net worth. If the company makes a huge profit and huge dividends are taken out of the company the net worth and shareholders funds can be low, despite the company having a great year.

Thanks ordinary lives. So essentially, when assessing the success of a business, these balance sheets are about as useful as a chocolate teapot? Good to know, and the tax free draw down makes sense as well. It all seems like a big game of smoke and mirrors to a business noob like myself.

Sminky, love, allow me to correct you.

You say that the maths means that there aren't enough pp on the planet.
Oh, I USED to think that too!

Fortunately a nice fl man on one of the blogs (Ryan, I think?) helped me to understand this rookie error.

What you have not taken into account, my dear, is that BABIES are born all the time! Those babies grow up and turn 18 all the time!

Hth.

:)

How long before a woman goes in for her 12 week scan and the lovely NHS scan lady tries to sign up the embryo for FL?

has anyone pointed out to Ryan that old people die all the time, too? :)

I think it was Ryss 's blog. It wasn't him, it was a comment defending fl.

You make an interesting point about pp dying. Hadn't thought of that.

:)

Unfortunately if you are a small business, you only have to file an abbreviated balance sheet, larger business do have to file a profit and loss account. A balance sheet can still tell you a lot about a business, if the business has a lot of assets, ie fixed assets, cash at bank, stock and debtors etc and the liabilities, creditors loans etc are substantially less, this would result in a good net worth. This net worth is financed by the reserves brought forward from previous years plus the profit for the year, less taxation and any dividends taken. In the case of these accounts, there is no real tangible worth, however that's not to say she's not making a good living, but the company is essentially her, and unlikely to have a resale value.

siwi they are quite wasy to argue with but they usually just block and delete. Reminds me of when I complained about UCKG ( dodgy ultra wealthy Brazilian religious cult which murdered Victoria Climbie), doing a xmas collection in a local supermarket. I complained and the woman said I was 'trying to steal her joy'.

Sadly, there is a lot of jealousy around.

I wrote to my MP and asked him what the government were planning on doing about MLMs. I told him I was concerned about vulnerable people being scammed. I linked to a few threads on here. He passed my letter onto Nick Bowles Minister of State for Skills.

He said he appreciated my concerns and then cited a load of laws about it and stating at what point it becomes illegal.

He gave me the web address and phone number of citizens advice and said they can pass on concerns to trading standards if appropriate.

It looks like the government can't do anything because tw scheme as a whole is legal although highly unethical. Has anyone here ever started a campaign (can't remember what it's called) where people can sign a petition to get parliament to debate something? Maybe one could be set up? The whole issue needs looking at properly at the highest level.

Unfortunately manipulating naïve and vulnerable people in this way is not illegal. I think the Timeless Vie blog is a great way to reach people. If enough of us report the false medical claims to the ASA it may garner enough negative publicity. The ASA told me that even though it's the reps posting this up they can still hold FL responsible.

anyway, I think I'm gonna spew, someone has taken one of those cardboard #successday hashtags into hospital and photographed her husband holding it. He looks quite ill. Nothing is sacred, clearly. It's so much like a religious cult, it really is, religious nuts will do unethical stuff like this too..

Unfortunately manipulating naïve and vulnerable people in this way is not illegal. I think the Timeless Vie blog is a great way to reach people. If enough of us report the false medical claims to the ASA it may garner enough negative publicity. The ASA told me that even though it's the reps posting this up they can still hold FL partially responsible.

Toobusy I am sure someone here posted a picture of a poster asking people who qualified for Job Seekers Allowance to consider becoming a fl rep . Really boiled my piss when I read it. I will have a browse and see if I can find it.

Here's one:-

Forever beautiful (facebook name) my comment in brackets
August 12 · (2015)
Is there anyone on job seekers allowance who would love to start their very own forever living business???
If so please drop me a message and I can go over your options and let you know how to get started,
You won't regret it,
Xxx

Sadly I don't know how to screenshot from a laptop.

This same individual posted this recently...

Some night time reading before bed,
If there is a product you'd like to know more about or a ailment you may have and would like to know if we have something that could help, drop me a message,
I'd love to help
💛💜💙

Actively looking to cure people .

Facebook seems to be saturated with them, here's another one...

Lynn's Forever Living-Lynn Kelly-Johnston
April 15 · (2015)
Are you receiving any of the following?
Income support
Job seekers allowance
Employment & support allowance
Yes? Are you sick of relying on these benefits and barely making ends meet? Feeling trapped in the system & that your life will never get better?
If you answer yes to any of these questions I may be able to help you.
I work from home running my own business with Forever Living products, we are a world leader in the booming health & wellbeing sector..I am myself disabled and have severe mobility problems. However I can run my business without worrying about going out to work in a normal job. I can be here for my kids and work as and when it is suitable for me.
If you receive any of the above benefits you may be able to get a business start up grant under The Enterprise Allowance Scheme funded by the government across the UK!
This is a fantastic scheme to help you get out of that trap and create a far better future for you and your family.
If you want to get out of the system and would like to work with me please friend request &PM me for a friendly chat.
I look forward to hearing from you.
Lynn
Assistant supervisor
Forever living business owner

stopstaffing I had a conversation recently with an FLbot who told me they knew someone who 'cured' themselves of MS using their products. They didn't know I have a relative with MS ........ Needless to say I proceeded to make them feel very stupid by filling them in on the reality of living with this illness. I believe they thought MS was on a par with a minor skin disorder! I also insisted I would contact the British Medical Journal and pass their details on so they could be contacted to share this amazing discovery, and how thrilled the thousands of sufferers would be :)
By the way, to screenshot on most laptops press the windows key and print screen (prt scr) key at the same time. This will open a box to name the file and choose a save location.

Great stuff! Thanks ambler. Here's another one...

This one has a gov. link too. Does this mean it is legal?

Aren't they 'Investiors in People?'

thing is, the government will do anything to get the official figures for unemployment, down, so that does include grants for schemes like this.. doesn't make it right, but doesn't surprise me one bit, I mean look at the fortune that action 4 employment got, that was a scam, if you ask me. A friend who was a total geek computer expert was sent on one of these schemes, they didn't actually do anything of value - yet the company was coining it in for each person sent on this course.

the JSA also boils my piss. it's so boiled that it's caked to the bottom of the pan.

saving all images - thank you. i'm going to put a post today/tomorrow about that.

imo, we can't expect much from the authorities for all the reasons mentioned. we have to start with naming & shaming at the bottom,unfortunately. And fwiw i agree that FL, JP or whatever is responsible for whatever their bots post - after all their bots wouldn't be posting it if it wasn't encouraged, explicitly or not.

timelessvie.wordpress.com/2015/12/14/how-mlms-like-forever-living-juice-plus-etc-fleece-the-uk-taxpayer-and-how-we-can-learn-from-them/

lazy or cheeky can one of you FB this one too? I"ll tweet it as well.

siwi yes they do have an investors in people award. This is touted as a major bonus to newcomers but is, in my opinion, misleading. The award was granted after interviewing the permanent staff of FLP uk in longbridge, (about 15 staff) along with 30 FLP business owners (I would guess partisan). Another 12 business owners were informally spoken to. A drop in the ocean really. Also IIP awards are not actually that hard to gain, especially for a company that requires so much training, I would argue that because this training is paid for its not exactly FLP 'investing' in the business owners is it?
This particular ASA ruling is here www.asa.org.uk/Rulings/Adjudications/2015/11/Forever-Living-Products-(UK)-Ltd/SHP_ADJ_308566.aspx#.Vm8F7kqLS70