'FL / MLM' Thread 3

[Eyespying]

Continuing the valuable discussion of 'Forever Living' and other 'MLM/commercial' cults.

eye this has just been linked on the other fl/mlm thread rhysmorgan.co/multilevel-marketing/. Not sure if you've seen it. It's interesting.

stopfaffing - Thanks - very interesting. On reflection, a link to this skeptical Blog was sent to me when it first appeared, but I don't remember reading all the content about Bill Ackman's challenge to 'Herbalife/MLM.'

Purely on the evidence of this one short article, 'Rhys' seems to have a high level of understanding of 'MLM' as a largely-unrecognised fraud, but you've got to give him 10/10 for his valiant attempt to raise public consciousness and limit the damage.

That said, I'm not sure if 'Rhys' fully-realises just how deeply-deluded, and self-destructive, chronic core MLM cult adherents can become.

As yet, I have never been in contact with 'Rhys' directly (unless he's posted comments on my Blog anonymously).

Ater studying, and exposing, 'medical' quackery, 'Rhys' has applied common-sense and immediately worked out that 'MLM' rackets are a hybrid combination of 'medical,' and 'economic,' quackery.

When you click on 'About Rhys' :

rhysmorgan.co/about-rhys/

Rhys is a skeptical activist with a thing for alternative medicine and tackling big quacks. He was given the Grassroots Skeptic Award at TAM London in 2010, after exposing Miracle Mineral Solution – an alternative treatment for Crohn’s disease, cancer, AIDS and many other illnesses – on the internet.

Last year, the Texan Burzynski clinic threatened him with a libel case when he wrote about expensive ‘antineoplaston’ therapy it offered for life threatening cancers. (They didn’t follow through on that threat.)

He’s since written for Comment is Free, talked to various skeptical groups, including Skeptics in the Pub groups and ThinkCon 2011. Most recently, he’s talked at Nottingham Trent University.

stopfaffing- It all comes back to me. After a cup of tea, I suddenly remembered, Rhys Morgan is the guy who (for very personal reasons) first began to complain very loudly, and intelligently, about medical quackery when he was just 15 years old.

www.theguardian.com/science/2010/sep/15/miracle-mineral-solutions-mms-bleach

Here is the article I was originally sent when 'Rhys' started his skeptical Blog 5 years ago, but I never saw his later article on 'MLM'.

thewelshboyo.wordpress.com/2010/08/10/bleachgate/

Thanks again.

Never posted on this thread but feel it's the best place to vent. The FL woman I know should have my pity, she's been through something horrific. But she is now basically posting every hour that if you're a good mother you'll get in touch with her and if you're a rubbish mother you'll work in a flipping office. She currently trying to recruit "maternity leave mums" - don't leave your baby bla bla bla. Just find it quite offensive. Incidentally, I know her as she's a colleague - she works in an office herself!

And breath.

(Hope this thread is visible to non-MNs if they Google FL etc, keep up the good work).

ASAS - Welcome to our discussion. When you say this woman has 'been through something horrific', I presume you already know that the most creepy recruiters for cultic groups like 'FLP' will deliberately seek out, and target (by pretending affinity), any individual in a situation of psychological vulnerability.

That's the thing, she's incredibly vulnerable. How can these things be legal?

ASAS If we construct, and launch; a computer virus, we would risk prosecution and a long prison sentence, but if we instigate an cult virus designed to attack vulnerable human minds (provided the victims whose critical, and evaluative, faculties we shut down, don't start committing violent crimes), currently, we risk nothing: for most victims will be unable to complain as they have been infected by their own friends and relatives whom they don't wish to incriminate.

'How can these things be legal?'

The answer to your (not unreasonable) question is that, in a democracy like the UK, blame-the-victim 'MLM' cultic racketeering is prohibited by various laws, and even by the Nuremberg Code (of which the UK is a signatory and which bans all forms of experimentation, physiological and psychological, on ill-informed, and/or vulnerable, humans), but so-called 'MLM' is an ongoing criminogenic phenomenon which remains officially-unrecognised, because from its outset, it was maliciously constructed to prevent, and/or divert, investigation and isolate its bosses from liability.

The pernicious, self-perpetuating lie entitled, 'MLM Income Opportunity,' has been allowed to gnaw its way so deeply into the heart of traditional culture (particularly, in the USA) that it has now become almost impossible to re-establish the rule of law. Even Bill Ackman (who controls a multi-billion dollar hedge fund) is finding it tough to challenge just one 'MLM' cultic racket, 'Herbalife.' After 3 years and $100+ millions invested by Mr. Ackman in the investigation/exposure, the 'Herbalife' mob is still hiding in plain sight and thieving from millions of people in dozens of countries all around the globe.

Unfortunately, Mr. Ackman has gone all-in financially, but so far, he's not gone all-in intellectually (or morally).

I have been observing, and overtly challenging, the entire phenomenon of 'MLM' racketeering for almost 20 years, but without political/financial influence, I've found it virtually impossible to find law enforcement agents to complain to, let alone prepared to take determined action. Virtually no 'MLM' victims want to come forward, and those who do, are incapable of explaining in accurate deconstructed terms, exactly what they were the victims of.

Indeed, various 'MLM' rackets have continued to spread through police forces throughout the world, because police officers are increasingly in a psychologically vulnerable state themselves, are often desperate to escape, but have little idea how to make money outside of their detested employment.

'MLM' has been described as 'legal' or 'legalised fraud,' but this is a meaningless American term which requires detailed explanation.

Criminal fraud is defined in the UK as lying to, and/or withholding key-information from, people in order to take their money. It's a form of theft.

However, if you pass any law, but then fail to enforce it, you effectively legalise the very crime you were apparently seeking to prohibit.

More free publicity for the 'FLP' racket - this time in the Daily Express.

www.express.co.uk/news/uk/623382/I-challenge-Jeremy-Hunt-to-keep-all-this-going-for-an-hour-Nurse-s-post-goes-viral

'Nicola qualified in 2000 and has been working as a nurse for 15 years - spending 14 of those specialising in critical care nursing.

'The mum-of-two, whose husband Dave is a psychiatric nurse in a prison, left her job with an NHS trust four months ago and now works for a nursing agency. Nicola recently took a second job in network marketing for Forever Living Products because she could not afford to keep the same standard of living for her family on a nurse's wage.'

I have a few friends that are nurses so Nicola's post popped up on my page. In fact I think it was shared by NH (NH is the UK no1 and she's in NH's team in FL)

I have an increasing amount of fb friends who are joining younique. I want to scream at them and say don't do it, but I know they won't listen as they'll think I'm just bitter since getting out of mlm. (I'm not bitter, I'm relieved)

rayofhope Many thanks for your input. This morning, I spoke to some interested third parties, but I couldn't tell them the approximate number of nurses currently adherents of 'MLM' rackets in the UK. All I could say is that from available information (like this Daily Express article), 'MLM' certainly poses a significant, and growing, risk for hard-pressed NHS staff, mainly because 'MLM' remains unrecognised officially.

For obvious reasons, medically-qualified individuals tend to find it much easier to recruit others into 'MLM' rackets peddling pseudo-medical wampum, rather than into those peddling makeup / household products, etc.

Several years back, I was put in touch with an 'Amway' victim in the UK. This guy was a retired agricultural worker who had been recruited by his neighbour. He told me that, at first, he was skeptical, until he was taken to a meeting and introduced to the members of an 'Amway Network' who were police officers, teachers, vets, doctors and nurses.

www.facebook.com/networkmarketing.mlm.homebusiness/posts/892653270752198

www.careerchangefromnursing.blogspot.fr/

seekingalpha.com/article/3740536-herbalife-is-moving-underground-with-their-business-opportunity-pitch

www.valuewalk.com/2015/12/coonsumers-community-leaders-detail-herbalife-deceptions-in-new-statewide-video-campaign/

www.facebook.com/Faces-of-Fraud-The-Real-Victims-of-Herbalife-416168845249930/

At one time, 'Herbalife' was linked to 'Scientology' in Europe.

The following extract comes from 'Les Sectes en Belgique et au Luxembourg' ('Cults in Belgium and Luxembourg') a book (published in 1994) written by Alain Lallemand, a journalist on the popular, Franco-Belgian Newspaper, 'Le Soir.'

--------------

'What is the connection between Herbalife and Scientology? According to Jean Albert Fisch of the Circle for the Defence of the Individual and the Family (CDIF), it was a German Scientologist, the main donor on the list of the International Association of Scientologists (IAS), who launched the sale of Herbalife in Germany. A few adherents of the Church of Scientology control a share of the (Herbalife) sales networks in France, wrote Le Monde in July 1993. The question even appeared in the Luxembourg Parliament in April 1993, when a member, John Schummer, asked the Minister for Health about collusion between recruiters from Herbalife and Scientology; in the meantime the German television station Sat 1, had been a lot more explicit: an ex-Scientologist had explained how he had been advised to use Herbalife products during Hubbard/Dianetics training courses. Otherwise, almost all other Scientologists are taking them, he declared.'

--------------

Two years ago, it was reported that Bill Ackman had employed a 'Scientologist,' Aaron Smith-Levin, to investigate 'Herbalife.'

www.forbes.com/sites/nathanvardi/2014/04/01/the-man-helping-bill-ackman-investigate-herbalife-in-china/

At first, I wondered if this Forbes article could possibly be an April Fool's joke, but, sadly, it was for real.

Aaron Smith-Levin was, in fact, born into 'Scientology,' but apparently, he now insists he that is no longer under the influence of the organization.

In 2014, I sent some common-sense questions to Bill Ackman, but I never got a reply:

1. How exactly did you come into contact with Aaron Smith-Levin?

2. Have you given any confidential information to Mr. Smith-Levin or his 'OTG' associates?

3. Do you still have contact with Mr. Smith-Levin or his 'OTG' associates?
4. Do you have any understanding of the comic-book story of 'Good vs Evil' which controls the minds and behaviour of core-'Scientology' adherents, and which has been used as the false-justification for a catalogue of crimes?

5. At the time you employed 'OTG Research Group' were you aware of:

- 'Scientology's' previous links to 'Herbalife' in Europe?

- 'Scientology's' history of using agents to infiltrate and destroy its perceived 'evil enemies?'

- 'Scientology's' involvement in the vast Ponzi Scheme fronted by Reed Elliot Slatkin?
---------------

Yesterday, the name Aaron Smith-Levin again re-appeared in the media linked to Bill Ackman.

---------------

www.foxbusiness.com/investing/2015/12/08/herbalife-attorney-warns-ackman-team-to-steer-clear-employees/

'In a FOX Business Network Exclusive, Charlie Gasparino has learned Herbalife's (HLF) legal team is upping the pressure against hedge fund activist Bill Ackman.

The company's legal counsel sent a letter to Ackman's Pershing Square Capital Investment's outside research firm, OTG Research Group, demanding that they stop soliciting confidential, proprietary and privileged information from both current and former Herbalife employees. The letter cites Ackman and his campaign against Herbalife describing his research tactics as troubling and improper.

OTG Research Group is run by Aaron Smith-Levin who is noted among the investment community for his ability to conduct deep corporate research.

Ackman and Smith-Levin declined to comment.'

When over access to my laptop, I'll have a look at that Facebook site. Sure looks interesting...

mlmtheamericandreammadenightmare.blogspot.fr/2015/12/herbalife-hlf-bill-ackman-and-aaron.html

stopfaffing - Right now I'm not too sure what to make of former 'Scientology Sea Org' member, Aaron Smith-Levin. It would probably take days thoroughly to study all the confusing (jargon-laced) video-evidence which has recently appeared on the Net - revealing his current state of mind and his insider's knowledge of the clandestine criminal objectives of the 'Scientology' leadership.

There are now a growing number of persons, like Mike Rinder, who have claimed to have participated in these criminal activities and lied for years, before coming out of the 'Scientology' organization (because it has become corrupt under the wicked leadership of David Miscavige), but who have continued to insist that they remain faithful adherents of L. Ron Hubbard's 'Scientology religion.'

I have described these confused, and confusing, former 'Scientology' pawns as being the equivalent of the early Protestants who refused the authority of the corrupt heads of the Roman Catholic Church, and who brought about the 'Reformation.'

That said, I would contend that 'Scientology' is self-evidently a criminogenic organization, which, by its very nature, cannot be reformed.

MN members might be interested to learn about what happened yesterday in New York, but apart from the half-baked civil investigation/prosecution of 'Amway' in 2007/2008, there has never been any similar common-sense political initiative to find, and interview, victims of the 'MLM income opportunity' lie, in the UK.

It is interesting to note that the initial questions lately put to 'Herbalife' victims by these American politicians, first appeared on my Blog years ago. The organisers of this event also don't seem to have introduced safeguards to prevent deluded 'Herbalife' worshippers from attending and reciting their group's jargon-laced, thought-stopping fairy story.

bronx.news12.com/news/officials-ramp-up-efforts-against-herbalife-in-alleged-pyramid-scheme-1.11211251

Senator Jeff Klein, Assemblyman, Luis Sepulveda and Council Member, Annabel Palma would like to invite you to a Round Table on Herbalife's Pyramid Scheme.

Were you painted a rosy picture in which you would make lots of money?
Were you told to recruit new members or sell products?
Were you told you didn't try hard enough?
Did you buy products you could not sell?
Have you lost hundreds or even thousands of dollars on this scheme?
Then you should attend this meeting.

WHEN: Wednesday, December 9th, 2015

WHERE: Community Board 9 Office

1967 Turnbull Avenue, Suite 7, Bronx, NY 10473

TIME: 12PM

To RSVP Or if you have any Questions, please call: 718-822-2049

www.valuewalk.com/2015/12/former-herbalife-distributors-consumers-share-stories-to-highlight-fraud-exploitation-by-pyramid-schemes/

Hello all! I have become completely obsessed with this subject over the past week. I've been reading all these threads and I'm halfway through Merchants of Deception.

I am on a community group type thing on facebook and have started noticing that any general posts asking for advice on makeup become flooded with Younique bots flogging their wares. They are all getting very defensive when I point out they are basically just trying to sell so can't be trusted ("but I wouldn't sell it if I didn't love the product!"). I got into a big argument yesterday with the bots because one of them said: "Its not just because i sell it its AMAZING and i highly recomend its long lasting and a pecentage goes to help sexually abused women"

I spent a while trying to get her to back up this claim. She told me to look up the Younique Foundation, which I did and of course the whole thing is purposefully very vague. I asked her to pinpoint exactly where on the website it states that a percentage of profits go to the charity. Of course she couldn't and so resorted to posting memes about how you shouldn't pay attention to negative people. I've just looked back at the thread and she has now quietly deleted all her posts.

Is it even legal to make claims about profits being donated to charity? I think it's completely disgraceful that abuse victims are being used to flog shite overpriced makeup.

As part of an overall pattern of ongoing major racketeering activity (stretching back to the 1980s), the 'Herbalife' mob has employed yet another corporate front-man in order to continue to commit fraud and to obstruct justice.

www.holmesreport.com/latest/article/herbalife-hires-tod-gimbel-for-senior-a-p-public-affairs-role

www.nysenate.gov/newsroom/press-releases/jeffrey-d-klein/senator-klein-assemblyman-sepulveda-councilwoman-palma-host