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Puddytats - A summary of the last 18 months of hell (this will be long and i hope will answer akll questions)

364 replies

puddytats · 24/09/2006 20:29

Dear all

I have decided to start a new thread on this and run thro everything from the beginning, if you get to the end then thankyou for reading and well done. If you have any questions please ask, i will answer as fully as I am able considering i do not, and will never know the full facts.

Here goes...

On the 12 May 2005 DD was born. On the 13th June DH returned to work after paternity leave. He got to work as usual at 9.30ish and was met in the lobby by head of HR and immediatly taken into the boardroom. He was told that discrepancies had appearded on a firm he was working on but this was not a disiplinary, simply a meeting to establish facts. DH was shocked and stunned. He was asked variuos questions including whether he knew what was going on. He said he had no idea. He was then suspended on full pay while further investigations took place. He returned home and we tried to piece together what had happened.
Records at work show that a ficticious member was made up on a real client and that DH did work on this client, including the issuing of a cheque. His computer initials were over everything. Work decided that DH was at fault at dismissed his.
As this was taking place the police also knocked on our door. DH was arrested and all paperwork relating to financial records were taken away - including all the work we had done ourselves. It transpired that 3 cheques 'passed' thrioough our bank account - one in joint bank and 2 in dh sole account. DH was adviced to no comment throughout the interview, which he did. Because of this and because one of the cheques was in joint account the police arrested me.
Names on the cheques had been changed after they were signed by the partners at DH work, we know this because there are photocopiers of the cheques before signiture and from the bank after cashing. They had been changed to either our current surname or my maiden name. The police handwriting expert said it was likely to be DH handwriting. A certified copy of our marriage certificate was also provided with the one in my maiden name.
A little of the money was moved round our variuos accounts and the rest was taken out one way or another. It would seem that everything other than the initial paying in and one cheque withdrawel was done over the internet. That money as yet has not been traced.
DH and i were cept on police bail for over a year while they completed their investigations. During this time we were powerless to do anything, I attempted to committ suicide due to the stress and we have reached lows you can not imagine.
After a hellish year i was released without charge. DH was charged on 10 counts. 3 of obtaining property by deception, 3 of fraud (can't remember exact terminology) and 1 of forgery (a letter apparently)
We have already paid over £20,000 in legal fees and if we had decided to fight the case would be looking at at leat £100,000 more including solicitors, Queens counsel, computer experts, forensic accountants, private investigators etc. At the moment DH mother in paying for us to survive - although i have now got a job, and DH father in paying legal fees. We cannot live off others forever.
If we fight it we could lose everything. We have 2 children and a need to keep a roof over their heads, they have been through so much in their very young lives that keeping a familiar home is vitsl to their stability.
We could fight it to the bitter end and have the full support of friends and family who believe us and know we have been set up. Our morals say fight but we have learnt over the past year that justice is not fair, about who is guilty or innocent but who can prove what and who can afford to prove what.
We do not want the children to remember daddy being away, we do not want to be apart at all so are trying to limit damage. We know dh is innocent and now have to ignore justice and look to what affect a lengthy trail could have on the family, the stress, tension cost etc has had to be weighed up against what could be gained or lost. We will win in the end because we have eachother.

If you have got this far then well done and thankyou

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aaronsmummy · 24/09/2006 20:40

OMG, do you have any idea who has set you up?

saggarmakersbottomknocker · 24/09/2006 20:40

Puddy - so sorry to hear this. It must be so difficult to plead guilty if you know you are innocent. I don't know if I could do it but understand yours and dh's reasoning. Will it definitely mean prison and also will you have to pay back monies that he have allegedly taken?

I don't understand though why the money can't be traced to the end i.e the point where it was drawn out in cash by whoever. Internet transfers are traceable.

puddytats · 24/09/2006 20:45

We have no idea who set us up, we socialised with a lot of people from work and considered ourselves to have some close friendships. We can no longer trust anyone there and need to let go of the past.
It is 99% chance of a prison sentance. I do not know the ins and outs of fraud and money laundering but apparently it can just 'disappear' if you know what you are doing.
Our solicitor has not pushed us in any way, he has been fantastic in simply giving us the facts and guiding us through the legal processes.
If we offer to pay some of the money back then that will be taken into consideration.

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Mum2FunkyDude · 24/09/2006 20:55

Can you not obtain legal aid LSC ? It sounds as if you've thrown in the towel, is it really your best option?

Ok I'm sure you've done all you could, but it just sounds so incredulous that they can prove you did it, but can't trace the money?

Best of luck!

puddytats · 24/09/2006 20:59

I understand that you think we are throwing in the towel ans sometimes it feels like that, but we have to look at the whole picture. We want our children to remember us not a nightmare time where mummy and daddy were too busy to play. We want our energy to go into building our future not fighting our past. Does that make sense?
Legal aid will not provide the level of support we need for such a complex case.

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foundintranslation · 24/09/2006 21:05

from what I understand it seems like they can't prove it as such (especially not because the money has not been traced), it 'just' looks overwhelmingly likely from the evidence?

How 'likely to be DH's handwriting' is it? Could you get another analysis, by another expert?

Did you not say, in an earlier thread, that your dh did a fair bit of his banking from his work computer? That would have made it easy for others to get hold of your details. TBH I think it also sounds like the bank is involved somehow (marriage certificate).

Sorry puddy, I'm sure you've been over all this to exhaustion, I just can't stand the thought that your dh will be pleading guilty if he's innocent (and if you say he is that's good enough for me) and am wondering if you have really exhausted ALL avenues?

Any way of cutting down that prospective legal bill? Could you prioritise who needs to be involved and your FIL pay for the most important iyswim?

The ramifications of pleading guilty go even beyond the prison sentence. I so, so hope your dh does not have to do this.

Thinking of you all.

Mum2FunkyDude · 24/09/2006 21:08

Yes I understand your need to protect the lo's, and I think you have thought this through well enough to make such a big decision. It will of course be hell for you; I hope you get through it as you plan. I suppose the feeling of having a little bit of control over the situation is going a long way for you guys now.

Best of luck!
Its a pity about Legal Aid.

puddytats · 24/09/2006 21:13

Foundintranslation, your support from the beginning has been fantastic.
Is is a all or nothing situation unfortunatly. If we were to fight it we would leave no stone uncovered until we got to the truth but we do not want our children to suddenly be grownup and we have missed out on their lives.
They have not won as we are still together, still strong and will be that way when dh comes home again.

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TaraPalmerTomkinsonsNose · 24/09/2006 21:14

whast he looking at with hsi guilty plea pt?

puddytats · 24/09/2006 21:14

DH did most of the banking at work. They however did not 'safeguard' his computer and the poilce have not taken it or asked for any server info. Re marriage cert anyone can get a copy

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puddytats · 24/09/2006 21:15

He is looking at 18 months, serving half. This is what we have been led to believe but if found guilty at the end of a long and costly trial will be at least 5 years

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TaraPalmerTomkinsonsNose · 24/09/2006 21:16

they never took his pc?
REALLY?
how totally odd

foundintranslation · 24/09/2006 21:17

How bizarre to confiscate your home computer but not his work one. Am also rather that anyone can get hold of a document like a marriage cert. That would not be possible over here.

You are all in my prayers.

puddytats · 24/09/2006 21:18

They took home pc but not his work one. It was still being used 2 months after he was dismissed.

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thankyoupoppet · 24/09/2006 21:21

so sorry for you puddy, just wondered if you noticed the money at any point in your accounts? I only ask because I probably wouldn't, I never know how much I have in the bank.

puddytats · 24/09/2006 21:23

DH has always dealt with financial side and never very weill at that - we are both aweful at that sort of thing, never checked bank statements etc, they just went into a drawer, as long as the bills were paid and salaries went in we were happy. Sounds aweful now

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Kaz33 · 24/09/2006 22:13

Nothing to add really other than you are in my thoughts. Good luck.

TheBlonde · 24/09/2006 22:27

Do you still have a civil case pending against you/DH for the money that was taken?

puddytats · 27/09/2006 12:39

Not until the criminal case is sorted.

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mrsdarcy · 27/09/2006 13:42

I've posted this on one of your other threads so after this one I'll stop going on about it, but you really do need to get advice about confiscation proceedings.

Even if he pleads guilty, serves his sentence and gets out of prison, the Crown could pursue him to recover assets to the value the amount they reckon he benefitted from the fraud. They could say, for example, that he benefitted to the tune of £50,000, and has available to him £10,000. If he didn't pay up that £10,000 he would be sent back to prison again. Even if/when he paid the £10,000, the remaining £40,000 would remain owing. If the Proceeds of Crime legislation applies to his situation, it is so important that he is properly advised.

I think there are cases going through appeal at the moment relating to whether the confiscation side of things can be dealt with at this stage. I understand that people have pleaded guilty on the understanding that the whole nightmare will be behind them, including confiscation, only to find that they are still pursued for repayment when they get out of prison.

I'm sorry to be gloomy and if you already know all of this. I'll honestly stop harping on about it now.

TheBlonde · 27/09/2006 13:52

puddytats - assuming your DH pleads guilty and only gets a short sentence what do you see for the future after that? Do you think he will be able to find employment again?

Piffle · 27/09/2006 13:56

I am gutted for you
I cannot believe that you cannot fight a case in this day and age without it costing you your life.
I too worry about what will happen in the civil case if he pleads guilty and what havoc recovery of assets could make upon your lives.

catsmother · 27/09/2006 16:19

The most outrageous thing about Puddytat's case and many others too of course is that it would appear justice (where you have sought out every possible last source of expert help and/or investigation) is closed to all except the very very rich (who can absorb legal fees), or the very poor who qualify for legal aid.

The cut-off for legal aid is ridiculous. Legal fees in situations like these can in no way, shape or form be afforded by people earning several thousands (even 10s of 1000s) more than the point at which the state says you "should" be able to afford it.

You don't think do you, that fighting to prove your innocence should actually depend on your bank balance and ability to pay ........ which is what Puddytat's implied before now.

Sorry - I know I've gone off on a bit of a tangent.

trefusis · 27/09/2006 16:27

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn

puddytats · 27/09/2006 16:35

He only has to declare a conviction for 10 years if it is under 2 1/2 years so that is a major consideration.
He has started a driving instructor course and plans to finish this when he gets out as he can be his own boss.
Mrsdarcy i have already taken note of what you have said, the house is in joint names so they cannot touch my half, we have nothing else of any value so they cannot take what we do not have.
We will not let this destroy us, we have too much to live for to let little minded people who are more interested in statistics that justice beat us.
Innocence until proven guilty is a load of rubbish and i will never ever trust the police, the legal system or this country again, i have no faith in any of it.
It is there to serve the rich and make the police look good, that is all.
I am seriously considering going to a newspaper when he is inside with my part of the story and the injustice in this country.

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