Erudio Student Loans Continued part 3

[erudioed]

I dont know if this is the right way to do it and i apologise if it isn't but this is the continuation of www.mumsnet.com/Talk/legal_money_matters/a2057131-Erudio-Student-Loans-Continued

Sorry that my previous post contained some typing erros. Here is the corrected verison:
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I have been reading some of the comments on another thread about Erudio.
There was a comment about Ombudsmen and legal decisions. In my professional opinion, an Ombudsmen decision is not the same as a legal determination. In fact, in some cases Ombudsmen make decisions that conflict with the law. The reason is that Ombudsmen usually make decisions on what "they" deem fair and reasonable within their "scheme rules". This might be alright in some cases, but for a strict legal interpretation of the law a decision of a court is needed.

I am that lawyer mentioned from the Legal Beagles site. I am finding this topic fascinating and I am happy to give my views on the issues surrounding Erodio etc without charge. If a case is strong, then I am prepared to help people bring a case on a CFA.

If you want my contact details, then send me a PM.

Anthony Reeves

Anthony you are going to be very busy!

That's great to hear. Thanks

On phone so excuse typos. Erudioed have you seen the FOI about date of threshold agreement has been forwarded to Erudio to answer!! Surely BIS should know if they set the date?

Could you give me a link to that FOI request littlemissgreen please.

Finally got my replies from Erudio - got CCA and it is legible. Also got SAR results so all the info on their calls etc and statements. It is really interesting reading and has all the interest charges (even with some credits!) and tells me everything I might need to know. Also interested that it also says next payment is 10/09/14 lol - yes, I am deferred......

Also got their reply to my complaint to FOS from them. I asked them to confirm if I didn't have to use form next year and they said it was 'administratively impractical' for me not to. Also denied making false statements to me, which is a lie! When I have stopped laughing at their responses and read them in more detail I might write more about it.

thats sounds like a full house sarebear.
Its a shame FOS didnt request the call transcripts. I have one call with an almost socratic answer reversal over 45 mins, followed by one of the sharpest about faces known to man after they returned back from being on hold for a few mins. Its certainly one area where they should be very harshly reprimanded by the FOS...if they are interested that is. Its not only poor service by Ventura (Capita), its truly shocking. I would have thought, were records of such calls made public, even The Wilmington Trust might disassociate themselves, and no one is more dubious that that company (they make Arrow Global look a legit service).

Erudioed looked properly at the FOI now couldnt.see on phone and was using someone else info. Looks like they have just assigned it to another BIS depatment.

message received littlemissgreen, i understand you cant speak, send me your coordinates and ill send in a rescue team

@ erudioed We have to send you into Erudio HQ on one of those suspended zip wire thingies

Following the FOI request on the date of deferment setting/ collusion with Erudio and just received an update for the BIS acknowledgement from 4 days ago

Noticed the BIS punch line at the end of their response - "BIS: working together for growth"... but not earnings growth, obviously.

@minimoosh, i volunteer ibreakwindinerusiosdirection for that task. Ill be scouting around looking for the 'Suspendered Assassin', rumoured to be Mark Filer, but we need another volunteer to abduct Zach Lewy's cat, i hear on the grapevine he falls to pieces when it isnt stuck to his lap, it reveals his boner whenever anyone talks business, leading to a potential shareholder rebellion.

Hey all. Not posted for a while, but just wanted to share something with you. Back on Friday July 4th , I had a conversation with a manager at Erudio (well, Capita actually).

He said a number of things - all which at the time I thought was rubbish and just the much mentioned 'scare tactics.' One thing he said though that now has become a horrible reality is that the threshold for deferment was going to come down - and keep on going down every year - so (in so many words), I might as well start paying now as in the future my deferment would may not be obtainable as I earn just over £24,000. I thought at the time - WHAT A LOT OF RUBBISH - WAGES ARE GOING UP, SO THE THRESHOLD WILL GO UP - AND HOW CAN SOME OIK FROM ERUDIO - ER CAPITA - KNOW WHAT THE FUTURE CALCULATIONS WILL BE.

Seems me dismissing this at the time was wrong. I also saw someone posting something similar either on here or on the MSE site a while back - long before the 'official announcement' made last week. WHAT IS GOING ON??? Something very dodgy I think.

On another note - I wonder who is actually paying for all these staff at Capita? I have a suspicion that it is US. Erudio seem to be the collection side and the wicked brains behind the operation, but I am pretty sure with my conversations with ?? Erduio ?? that BIS and the taxpayer is helping bank roll a huge number of staff to help out in the crisis they have made for themselves through Capita Remediation Services. I think you will all find through and FOI request that taxpayers money is probably being used to bank roll this side of the operation at the moment. Maybe that was what Vince Cable was getting at when he stepped in to say that no more loans should be sold off???

It just gets darker and murkier.

I knew it! A couple of weeks after i was told the threshold was going to start coming down, someone posted the same message on MSE. It read on 21st July 2014 at 10:21 AM -

"We're being mucked around again
The Deferment Threshold from September 2014 might go down from £28,775 to around £27,000 (might be as low as £26,700) down to what it was five years ago.
How can we plan our finances properly when we have little idea from year to year whether we have to pay back some of our loan or not.
If the Threshold does go down then it’s down to Bankers’ bonuses and the way the Government does the calculations (they are done by the Government not the SLC).
How unfair is that. "

Seems like Erudio can tell the future - or, more likley, shape it through their pals in government. Grrrrrrrrr

what makes you think it is taxpayer money luckyEskimo4? What did you hear to make you think that? This is a very important bit of info.
I wonder if the guy was using the usual patter to get you to pay, but the size of deferment threshold drop is certainly under scrutiny by a number of people right now trying to ascertain the exact figures used, so lets wait and see if anything emerges.

Ive been spending way too much time thinking about my least favourite subject again but i have to say LuckyEskimo4 that that post by fairplay4all on MSE is most curious isnt it?
I must admit it passed me by when fairplay4all's post but you do seem to have been privy to two sources saying the same thing before it was announced. One that post, and the guy from Capita at least a month before hand.
I know little about these things and the machinations of government/private industry communications but does anyone else know the implications of Capita staff or Arrow Global staff, or the Wilmington Trust staff knowing such a piece of information before it was officially announced?
Is it normal for this kind of info to be passed from the Government beforehand to interested private parties, or is that tantamount to the equivalent of insider trading, or actually the same as insider trading...i know the Arrow Global Group has floated, so to speak.

I had a reply from my MP office about this. I was sent the following:

What are the new interest rates?

As March's rate of inflation was 2.5%, it means graduates will pay the following in interest from 1 September:
· 1990-1998 "mortgage style loans": The current interest rate is set at 3.3%, but this will drop to 2.5%.
· 1998-2011 "income-contingent loans": The current interest rate is 1.5%, set at either the Bank of England base rate plus 1%, or the rate of inflation, whichever is lower.
· Post-2012 "income contingent loans": The current interest rate is set at 6.3% (March 2013's RPI + 3%), but this will drop to 5.5%.

What are the new repayment thresholds?

But with all of these loans you only start repaying once you earn over a set amount each year, and the Government has today confirmed that from 1 September it will change these goal posts for some. Here's what's happening:

· Pre-1998: With these loans you currently must make repayments if you earn over £28,775. But from 1 September the income threshold above which you must make repayments will drop to £26,727 – though in both cases you can choose to repay before that.
· 1998-2011: With these loans you currently repay 9% of everything earned above £16,910 a year. This threshold will increase to £17,335 from 1 April 2015.
· Post-2012: With these loans you'll have to repay 9% of everything earned above £21,000 a year. This threshold hasn't changed, although no-one will have started to repay these loans yet.

They then referred me to MSE for more details. I'm rather concerned the government are referring people to MSE to find out why things are happening like deferment levels going down by so much and for information regarding impact. I don't understand why it has gone up for post 1998. I didn't get any answer to that, unless it is in the information I've posted and I've missed it.

seems odd BIS just dont say what the exact figures are that theyve used to make this calculation. Everyone knows the framework that they use to make the calculation.
Until they reveal what it is so that we can understand, im just assuming something rather foul is taking place...
If it was a person id give them the benefit of the doubt all was ok until proven otherwise but when a debt purchaser seems to be the only party to benefit i assume the worst until proven otherwise. And, after all, BIS are stage managing everything that has made it into the media thus far, pressuring Arrow to release the over 500 DD that were stolen and other things that they have had to react to, now an announcement by that very Department has thrown up another calculation that shouldnt be rocket science to work out but they are refusing to reveal the working out of the calculation.

It has gone rather quiet here lately, so i will cut and paste this from the MSE forum that i am sure most have seen already. Hopefully the poster wont be too angry but i think it is important enough to spread afar:
I had major issues with Erudio, taking money out when I was already deferred! Got no where with customer services. I contacted the big boss of Erudio direct [email protected] his PA is [email protected] within 5 mins of me mentioning the media his PA phoned me offering me compensation for all the messing about with Erudio! I've just emailed again asking for an explanation of the new loan threshold which means I can no longer deffer from April next year! I havent had a pay rise in 7 years I simply cannot afford to pay them back! lowering the threshold by over £2000 Ridiculous! My suggestion for people not happy with Erudio is to contact the above! Forget customer services who have NO idea what they are doing contact the top people!!

I've been busy for the last couple of weeks and missed this news about the deferment rate falling.

I have no issue with the deferment rate falling. I have sympathy for those who will now have to start to repay some of the money but there's a far greater force at work here.

Everyone knows wage rises have remained stagnant over the last few years for the majority of people, be they public or private sector.

What did we see in the news recently? Ah, the unemployment rate keeps dropping. At the same time, the number of part-time workers increases as does the number of self-employed persons.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-28866302

"The TUC described the figures as "worrying", as the pay of self-employed workers is typically around half that of people in staff positions."

What we're really seeing is the truth of the economic revival under Cameron and Osborne. Those jobs earning somewhere around the student loans threshold mark have been squeezed. Those public sector jobs earning £25,000 to £30,000 have been rigidly squashed in the area where I live. Those at the bottom have been getting very small pay rises or none at all. Sure, those at the top keep earning away but the vast majority of ordinary folk are being squeezed harder and harder. Add in the rise in self-employed people who earn less than conventionally employed persons and it isn't hard for me to understand why the student loan threshold rate has dropped so sharply.

That the drop is that sharp is a damning comment on the Conservative-led Government. "We're all in this together".... like fuck are we. We're a nation of serfs who have allowed successive Governments to sell us out to corporate and financial interests, Governments who clamp down on the tax affairs of small businesses and the self-employed whilst simultaneously bending over and letting multinationals fuck them up the arse whilst tax pounds disappear to overseas tax havens. The recovery is not equally spread out and neither is the economic pain.

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I'm sure there are those here who would say that the reduction in threshold is Governmental chicanery in favour of Erudio. That would be hard to prove. The question I would ask BIS is this:

"You sold the loans to Erudio with the belief that it would be hard to reclaim money. I imagine you were fully aware that future average earnings after the sale would drop and drop and thus more people would be ineligible for deferment and would have to pay.

In that case, why did you sell so cheaply knowing more would be paying within two years of the sale?"

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I think you may have just hit the nail on the head there ibreakwind, that is a strong argument. With the self imposed, suicidal austerity that Osbourne and Cameron have chosen, turning the place into a part time, low wage haven slowly advancing to the american social support system...work or die but work for crumbs in 2 or 3 parttime jobs.
I still want to see the figures BIS use to get the big drop but your question at the end would certainly offer one reason why BIS has been cagey about releasing quite a lot of info. It would be very interesting to know if this was discussed with Arrow et al, and when BIS new about it. Do you think this may also have something to do with the recent decision to not sell anymore of the loans because the economic climate has changed (according to them)? If you are right, this is BIS' big secret and something they would like to keep hidden to avoid a rather big shitstorm after the disgrace of the Post Office sell off.

What I don't understand is why the other thresholds for other student loans are increasing not decreasing. That's what makes me suspicious.

If all repayments are set at a particular percentage of earnings then shouldn't other repayment thresholds be dropping?

If I can manage to get my local authority to start paying and get a bank account opened (easier said than done) from next year I will have to repay because money to pay for a carer and other medical care/services (im not referring to DLA or PIP here but annual grant from local authority) is considered income by erudio will push me beyond the limit - it is not my money if I was to access it I would be prosecuted. I can do nothing about it because it is in my name and therefore considered to be my income, so I would be paying from my benefit each week which as a single disabled person is far far below the limit even including other benefits as well.

@ibreakwindinerudiosdirection, here is a reply from the MSE site if you havent seen it to the yours above that i pasted...not to dismiss the seriousness of your claim but for debate cause i know sod all about this and your reply seemed to hit the spot when i read it:

@ erudioed It looks like Ibreakwind may have found the answer to the deferment drop - it's possible that self-employed earnings would be factored into BIS's calculation, so the big rise in self-employed workers, with earnings well below AWE, would explain the big drop in the threshold.

BUT - self-employed earnings are excluded from Average Weekly Earnings, which is what the deferment level is based on per the regulations, so should have no impact, from ONS:

"Average Weekly Earnings is calculated from returns to the Monthly Wages and Salaries Survey (MWSS), and is weighted to be representative of the Great Britain economy as a whole. The self-employed, HM Armed Forces and Government Supported Trainees are excluded from the statistics".

The definition of deferment level in the regulations:

"85% of the lender’s estimate of average monthly earnings of all full-time employees in Great Britain for the January when the level will apply based on figures published by the Office for National Statistics, or if that Office ceases to publish relevant figures, any other published figures".

No mention of self-employed earnings being factored in - the self-employed aren't full-time employees either - the ONLY figure that legally counts is 85% of average earnings for all full-time employees.

@Erudioed

I agree. I've said in these threads before that seeing the Canadian student loan system and fees structure in 2003 when I lived in Toronto scared me as I was sure that it would end up happening in the UK. 11 years later and we're seeing the same things happening: a rigid employment sector that believes you must have a degree for even the most basic of white-collar work, stagnant wages, and a mounting student debt amount.

www.macleans.ca/society/life/the-new-underclass/

Degrees have been marketed for too long as the be all and end all, the way to go forward. New Labour pushed this further to a ridiculous level. Vocational training was pretty much ditched.

Austerity isn't suicide for everyone. For the bottom and the middle, it is very hard. We have some of the poorest people in Europe in our country.

www.ibtimes.co.uk/uks-poorest-among-most-financially-stricken-europe-1452895

The rich on the other hand keep ticking along.

@erudioed

Just on my hour break now from work, more chef toil to come! I've had a closer look at some of the stuff you mention and yes the self-employed aren't included in those statistics.

So why the big drop? I'd still go with the notion that there's been such a cut in middle earning bracket salaries (those ones that are hitting the national average and above) along with more people working in lower paying jobs. Couple this with the known increase in self-employed people and BIS would surely have known at the point of sale that a threshold reduction would mean more people having to pay.

It'll be most interesting to know what the official explanation for the threshold decrease will be.

With the 1998-2011 loans: I'm too mentally frazzled after six days at work to have any notion as to why the threshold here is rising!

Interesting post from MSE yesterday.

Quote: I had major issues with Erudio, taking money out when I was already deferred! Got no where with customer services. I contacted the big boss of Erudio direct [email protected] his PA is [email protected] within 5 mins of me mentioning the media his PA phoned me offering me compensation for all the messing about with Erudio! I've just emailed again asking for an explanation of the new loan threshold which means I can no longer deffer from April next year! I havent had a pay rise in 7 years I simply cannot afford to pay them back! lowering the threshold by over £2000 Ridiculous! My suggestion for people not happy with Erudio is to contact the above! Forget customer services who have NO idea what they are doing contact the top people!!