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Original poster

Am I committing benefit fraud?

33 replies

JingleMum · 10/01/2013 16:00

Hi, didn't know whether to post this here or in legal matters? Hoping for some advice.

Ex and I split in February 2011, he's a great dad & we still get on great, we are good friends but there's no way we can reconcile and we never will.

I live with my mum (moved in when ex & I spli) can't afford to move out until DD starts school & I can work more hours. The only benefit I claim is WTC & CTC. I need to temporarily leave my mum's house for around 4 months a little later this year (lots of building work, re-wiring, redecoration, extension etc...) I work from home, my clients come to me, the house will be unliveable so I can't work from home until work is complete.

Ex owns his own property & is letting DD and I move in whilst work is going on at mum's house, he is moving into either his mum's spare room or his brother's converted loft, he's doing it because we have nowhere else to go & also because I'll lose 4 months income if he doesn't.

I will need to inform tax credits & child benefit of my temporary move, but I'm worried it's benefit fraud & they'll make us do a joint claim? I want to be honest about my temporary move in case they need to write to me etc... But I'm worried when I ring they'll automatically know it's his house (he doesn't claim tax credits) and assume we've reconciled, even though it's temporary & he'll be moving out. Is this benefit fraud and will they know it's his address?

Just to add I'll be going on his council tax bill for the 4 month period as I'm sure it's illegal if I don't declare my move, albeit temporary?

As soon as building work is complete I'll be straight back home & changing everything again.

OP posts:

CogitoErgoSometimes · 10/01/2013 17:04

If it's only a temporary move and you get the tax credits paid straight into your account (?) then there's no real reason to advise of a change of circumstances either to HMRC or the local council. You'll still be a lone parent, just at a different address for a few weeks. You'll still be registered and paying your share of the council tax at your Mum's address presumably? That won't stop just because the place is uninhabitable. I really don't think that what you're planning is fraud.

Original poster

JingleMum · 10/01/2013 17:46

Hi, thanks for the reply. I had to ring tax credits this week regarding my child care costs going down and I explained about moving temporarily and they said when I did, that I had to inform them as it was longer than 8 weeks. I wasn't going to bother but my house is a good distance away from my ex's and I won't be going back to pick up mail during the 4 months, so I think I have to inform them to get my renewal letter etc.. Just worried that they'll assume we are back together & I'll get in trouble.

OP posts:

Rockchick1984 · 10/01/2013 17:49

Why not tell them the full situation and ask their advice? That way you know there won't be any fallout from it :)

Original poster

JingleMum · 10/01/2013 17:57

Hi, thanks for replying. Just scared that they will say we need to claim jointly & I can't afford to do that, plus I never told them soon enough that we separated & I'm now paying back £500?! It's strange how it works, they penalised me for claiming less money than I was entitled to, so god knows how it would work if they thought we were back together.

OP posts:

CogitoErgoSometimes · 10/01/2013 18:45

OK wasn't aware of the 8 week rule. However, I think for the sake of an extra 8 weeks, it probably would have been better to keep quiet and get the post forwarded instead...

Original poster

JingleMum · 10/01/2013 20:09

I think you're probably right Cogito unfortunately I've already spoken with them. Do. Think it's likely they'll find out it's his home and I'll be done for benefit fraud?

OP posts:

Original poster

JingleMum · 10/01/2013 20:10

*Do you think

OP posts:

CogitoErgoSometimes · 10/01/2013 22:35

IME HMRC can go either way when it comes to checking up. They either do nothing at all or they're all over you like a rash. Personally (and do with this what you will) I'd move out, move back, not tell them anything and gamble that they've forgotten all about the conversation. You 'changed your mind'.

HappyMummyOfOne · 10/01/2013 22:39

Post forwarding, from memory, excludes certain items and tax credits is one of them to avoid fraud.

If they do a random computer check it may alert them if you have lived their previously. A credit check would also link his name to your new address.

Be honest with them upfront and ensure he has proof of living elsewhere but even that can be over ridden by other factors.

5madthings · 10/01/2013 22:44

Can your mum.not just forward your post.
You are not committing fraud but i think.it would be far simpler to not mention thd move as it is temporary.

Original poster

JingleMum · 10/01/2013 23:35

Thanks for taking the time to reply guys.

Mum's hard is very far from ex's, plus mum is having to leave temporarily too, the reason I need to inform them is in case I miss my renewal or any other correspondence.

Never lived at his current property with him, we lived somewhere else, but I guess if they do a credit check in those 4 months then I am in big trouble? Asked my friend for advice today, she didn't understand why I was panicking as her ex left her 2 years ago & she's obviously claiming her tax credits as a single person, but it's only his name on the mortgage of the house she's living in and even though the bills are all in her name, one of them comes out of his account still, so surely they mustn't check on a monthly basis?

OP posts:

Original poster

JingleMum · 10/01/2013 23:36

*mum's hard?? I meant house!

OP posts:

DSM · 10/01/2013 23:42

Surely your mum can just pass you the mail?

I wouldn't tell them. There is no need. And I don't understand why you are being 'put on' his council tax? Surely if he is expecting you to pay, he'll pay it and you'll pay him back? I wouldn't bother with all the hassle of switching names, bank accounts etc. for the sale of 4 months.

I don't think they assume you are in a relationship just because you are sharing a house anyway (even though you won't actually be) as people can house share and have no romantic relationship.

But then there are couples who don't share finances and the parent loses out on TC when they live together which I've never understood. Why should someone become financially responsible for someone else's child simply because they are cohabiting? Never understood HMRC's view on this.

ThisIsMummyPig · 10/01/2013 23:45

If you were going to claim Housing Benefit for paying rent to your EX-DH, that would be benefit fraud, otherwise I don't think it is.

Tax Credits don't have the staff to fraud investigations though, so you are unlikely to have any trouble. (bit of a gripe of mine that)

DSM · 10/01/2013 23:46

Oh yes they do, we are in the middle of an investigation. Highly irritating as we have our payments stopped pending the outcome (it's been since September).

DSM · 10/01/2013 23:48

Claimed TC for 6 years before being 'randomly selected' for a fraud check though so I don't think they have a huge team on the case

It's a terribly run system in general.

TheSilveryTinsellyPussycat · 11/01/2013 00:07

Certainly, if you split while married, and are under the same roof, then each can claim Tax Credits independantly, so prob WTC + CTC for one and WTC for the other.

Original poster

JingleMum · 11/01/2013 00:25

Again, thanks for all replies. DSM that's awful that your payments have stopped. Hope you can get it sorted & back dated.

So I'm essentially taking a risk? I may be looked into in those 4 months? I'd have to be really unlucky. I just thought I'd ring up & they'd magically know that it was ex's house & they'd assume we'd reconciled.

OP posts:

DSM · 11/01/2013 00:28

Thanks Jingle - I hope so too..

I don't even think you are taking a risk; you aren't doing anything wrong, you are merely concerned that it might look bad to an outsider but the truth is that you are still living alone as a single parent.

By the assumption that you think they might make, all renting people would be 'assumed' to be living with the property owners!

If you were reconciling but wanted to continue to receive TC then yes, you'd be taking a risk. Thats not the case, you aren't doing anything wrong. Don't tell them, go and pick up your mail once a month and don't worry

MrAnchovy · 11/01/2013 00:55

"I think for the sake of an extra 8 weeks, it probably would have been better to keep quiet and get the post forwarded instead... "

Yeah great idea, HMRC have no access to forwarding address records do they?

The most ridiculous thing about this advice is that you aren't actually going to do anything that should result in a loss of benefit, the only "crime" you might commit is in not declaring the perfectly legal things that you intend to do!

Explain the situation to HMRC. Put your name on the council tax records and take his off as you are then both putting the true postition on public record.

MrAnchovy · 11/01/2013 01:05

Links to changes you must report for child benefit and tax credits.

Mumsnet community (except Rockchick) you have really screwed up on this one - the OP came here looking to do the right thing and needing some assurance that it wouldn't result in a loss of benefit and instead you have told her to do things that could really get her into trouble and have her benefit stopped for good!

DSM · 11/01/2013 01:06

Not if the mail is being 'forwarded' from your mothers hand into your hand, no.

You can go through the process of informing HMRC of exactly what is going on, if you want. I personally wouldn't bother as it makes no difference anyway. No crime is taking place, no fraud.

DSM · 11/01/2013 01:08

But she isn't changing her address! Her registered, permanent address will remain the same. She is merely staying elsewhere for a few weeks whilst building works are completed.

TheSilveryTinsellyPussycat · 11/01/2013 01:14

Scuse me, my post was intended to reassure OP that it would not be fraudulent...

MrAnchovy · 11/01/2013 08:48

Oops sorry TheSilveryTinsellyPussycat and also HappyMummyOfOne, you are both excluded from my at the collective lack of wisdom.

Its not as if its difficult to notify, there's a single online form to do it covering child benefit, tax credit, self employment and all other HMRC records.

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