Need help to estimate living expenses coming from abroad

[scubacat2292]

Hello Mums! My family (me, husband, 3 kids) are looking to move to the London area in the next few months as part of a job transfer. We've just found out my DH's salary, and are having a heart attack over the amount of taxes we will pay. My first question is does everyone really pay the taxes the tax calculator says, or do we have any chance of getting some of that money back at the end of the year? He would make enough to get us into the 40% range, but the calculator didn't offer me the option to add in 3 kids, so I'm wondering if I can count on any sort of return there? For example, here in the US our tax bracket is technically 32%, but once we get exemptions for our mortgage, kids, sales tax, etc, we end up only ACTUALLY paying closer to 12% or so. Any chance of that happening in the UK, or should I really count on 40%?

Second question is that I would love to get some idea of what my regular expenses might be? We are looking to find a 3 bedroom flat or house in a good neighborhood. I'm hoping to find something for around 1500p per month. I don't know if that's realistic, but I've checked out some rental sites and it seems possible. If we can make that happen, it comes out to 35% of his take-home pay. What would the rest of the monthly expenses come out to? Somebody mentioned council tax - what is that? Also, I assume I need to pay water, garbage, sewer?, phone, cable, internet, electric. Is there a way to get an idea of what the costs of these might be so I can determine if we will have enough money?

Thanks so much for any help!

That's so funny. Here in the US it's weird to have separate accounts. You're married, and you spend all the money together, so you have one account. I couldn't be a SAHM without it, as I have no income of my own.

Azazello - Yes, I agree. We looked into Kings Cross options, but my boys are very active in Boy Scouts of America (My 13 year old in well on his way to being an Eagle Scout) and they really want to continue that. In order to do that in the UK, we need to be close to an international BSA troop, and there is one in Cobham. So I'm trying to get close enough to London, while still staying close to Cobham. We were thinking that at Claygate he could take the train in straight to Waterloo and then tube, or he could even drive over to Morden and go tube the whole way. What do you think? How much does it cost to park at Morden - anyone know?

Which way is Essex? I'm only familiar with Surrey and Herts at this point.

The uk does allow joint credit cards - I'm don't work but have cards associated with dh accounts.

I did a Google search and found this:

"If her husband has any credit cards, [her being] added as another cardholder...is not going to do anything for her credit-wise. She might obtain an authorised card (her name on the card) on his account for her to use for purchases, but it's still his account, reported on his credit record, and nothing to do with her credit record. Credit cards in the UK are single name, never joint, for who is liable/responsible for paying the account - and whose credit report it goes on."

I don't want want to sound like I'm harping on and on about this. My apologies if I do sound like such...

Where do you live in the US? It sounds like you have a good lifestyle there, scuba, so London would be a hugely expensive move in comparison. Think San Francisco or New York in terms of living costs and difficulties in finding good schools, housing etc.

If you live somewhere in the US with good schools, affordable housing and good amenities than London will be a big drop in your standard of living unless your DH is being offered a really good relocation package.

We moved from Scotland to the US about a year ago, to San Francisco and it is much more expensive here but the relocation deal was good and with the lower taxes, it is financially worthwhile. I don't think your move to London will be financially worthwhile in that way, as it's such an expensive city and taxes are high, but it could be a great experience for your family so if you were willing to put up with a lower standard of living for a while in return for travel, experiences and adventure it could still be worth it.

Ah, just noticed you're in Seattle so, yes, London will be a drop in your standard of living, quite a considerable one I would say (similar climate though I'd imagine...)

If you view it as an experience you're willing to sacrifice money for, then go for it! I guess my main worry in your situation would be schools for your children, especially your 13 year old so catchment area for a good school would be my main priority when house-hunting. I don't know London or suburbs that well though so can't advise on that.

NapaCab - Yes, you've got it exactly. This move will be a major financial step down for us. Money-wise and standard of living. There will be many sacrifices. BUT, we are planning to stay for just 1.5 to 2.5 years, and then we will come back to our regular lives. In the meantime, we look at it as an amazing opportunity to "live a life less ordinary" by jumping into a huge adventure with opportunities to travel, explore other cities, cultures, and to actually live in another country. I hope the trade off will be worth it. :) I would rather regret going than regret not going.

Dh and I have often done the 'where-will-we-be-better-off' discussion. (He's American). It's always come down on the Uk side for overall quality of life; US for money.,,
Scuba, I think this will be a superb period of time for your family. But because you've got a limited time, I think that being as close to central London as possible is a no-brainer:)
Cut down on your dh's commute time and the hideously expensive train fares, forget about having a car at all and go for city living!
You'll find schools that are good for all your dc (though very different from back home) and so much for you all to explore as a family.

I think you have a brilliant attitude - go for it!

Claygate is lovely & has a very good primary school. You might be pushed at getting a rental property you like for 1500
Many 3 bed rentals are double that. ( I kid you not)
Hinckley wood is a bit cheaper, but not quite as nice. Very accessible to London.
No more than 20 mins to Waterloo

Don't worry about the creditcards. We have one Amex account but 2 cards for the same account, one for me and one for dh. You will need visa as well though as lots of places dont take amex. Pretty sure visa will let you do the same.

I did the reverse - moved the states and lived on cash as was only there a year and wasn't working.

I agree about the town thing- why don't you look at london itself. I lived in Camden , overlooking the canal. Could walk.up.the canal to the market, it was a short walk to primrose hill and regent park. Hampstead was close by, had the lido too, 10 mins on the bus to oxford circus - it was great - was young and kid free though!

Are your kids into skateboarding? If so, you might want to ensure you live near a skatepark too...... There is one in Caterham, called Skaterham....
And one near Notting Hill, called Baysixty6 and sponsored by Nike, that one is fab, my boys go regularly.

Commuting to Holborn- you have another option which is to look at places on the City Thameslink/Farringdon overground routes the it's a 10/15 min walk to Holborn Tube or you can jump on a bus. Avoiding the tube saves money and stress!

Dear Scubacat

I am aware that we are offering you a number of options and advice but purely going on Guildford in Surrey as being one of the places you are looking at..... If you were to find a 3 /4 bedroom house in Guildford that you liked , your husband was working in Chancery Lane and if he was not going to be driving into work ( yes petrol is more expensive here ) , then his journey would be approximately 50 minutes by train from Guildford into London Victoria but then by underground to Chancery Lane ( Chancery Lane is on the London Underground system ) . Depending on where you do end up living you can use www.nationalrail.co.uk to calculate the cost and length of train journeys. His salary would be taxed each month and there would be deductions for this tax and national insurance. Yes, you can have joint bank accounts but I am not sure about joint credit cards . London especially and the south east of England are considered the more expensive areas to live in England so you may find by moving further afield you will get more house for your buck !! With council tax , houses fall into different bands ( a,b,c,d,e ) and the amount you are charged would depend on what area you were in and what type of property you had. The tax covers things like garbage collection, street lighting, the police and sewerage. Your gas and electricity can be supplied and billed by the same company or done separately. For me, I have a separate company supplying my water . TV's, phones, cable and internet can be done as one package or separately. A TV licence costs £145 per year. I'm afraid I can't give you any advice about schools but I am sure that other people can. Register with a local doctor ( nhs care ) but your husband's job sounds as if medical insurance could be part of the package so you would be able to go private. Are you coming over here under your own steam or is there a relocation company involved ? If not , there is Eagle Relocations in Watford Hertfordshire www.eaglerelocations.com who you might like to contact about moving your stuff over here . If you are'nt looking to work when you are here I am sure that where ever you end up, you will be able to find groups to join whilst your children are at school. Finally, what is happening about your house in Seattle? Are you renting it out whilst you are in the UK? Do your insurers there need to know that you are relocating? Good luck with everything

Thank you for all the info! I'm getting two different messages. One says live close in, deal with the high rents, and enjoy the city! The other says move to a commuter town, save the money on rent, and have a better standard of living and a better chance at good schools.

As much as I really would like to cut down on my husband's commute, I think we have to go a little farther out. We'll be coming in mid-term, and so my school options will be severely limited. I MUST go somewhere that I feel good about whatever school they may put us in and where I can drive whatever distance it might be, as I'm not comfortable sending my 13 year old on public transport across London. We are very suburban here - he's never been on a public bus in his life (there just aren't any - around here everyone drives) and it will be a huge adjustment for us. For a while, anyway, I will keep the children under my skirt, so to speak, until they feel secure and understand how things work. So the outskirts will make schools easier and driving around easier.

Upinthehills -Sounds amazing! But for my previous life, when I was young and kid free. :) I'm afraid that this life has to revolve around their security and well-being instead, particularly as two have mild special needs.

Notquint - no, they are not into skateboarding.

Chickydoo - yes, we are finding very limited stock in the rental market all around Claygate. I found several places in Chessington instead, which makes me believe it's probably not as nice. :) But the plan to drive over to Morden and just take the tube into work can happen there. That saves us a train pass and we just need a Zone 1-6 card.

ClareMarriott - the company is paying all the relocation costs. Including a one month gross salary for any unforeseen expenses. Unfortunately, we'll need every penny of that just to make ends meet, so let's hope there aren't any unforeseen expenses! lol

I appreciate and have listened to all the people who say we could move north of the river in order to lessen the commute. The line coming in from St Albans to Kings Cross is probably the most convenient. Any good areas on that line that I should look into? Obviously St Albans looks lovely, but if I could get him closer in, that would be even better.

We also discovered the red line goes straight into Chancery Lane and starts in West Ruislip near Hillingdon. What do you think of that area??

the commute from St Albans is better than some areas that are closer as it is the first stop after St Panc/kings cross for fast trains. It's not cheap, but nearly all the schools are good. I'd check about school places though as often the local papers feature horror stories of kids not getting in.
Areas: Marshalswick has sandringham school and housing is slightly cheaper than city centre, but still nice. Jersey farm will get you a bit more space and again it's ok/nice.

Prices vary wildly depending on the road. It's worth a discussion with a local agent.

Have a look at this www.schoolguruhertfordshire.co.uk/

Can you stretch to £1750 pcm if you live IN Morden?

look

Also, you have to keep in mind that most rental properties are unfurnished, so you need to budget for beds, linen, pots, pans, crokery, cutlery, curtains, the lot....

NotQuint - I will bring ALL of that from home. Well, most of it. Our company will give us a 40foot cargo container to move our whole household, and considering we have a 5 bedroom house here, I plan to downsize most of it, and bring almost all of the essentials. So we are good there - just have to buy some small appliances as mine won't plug in.

Is Morden nice enough to actually live in? And I'm concerned about what someone else said about the northern line being awful for the way home. I really have started looking north instead.

Notmadeofrib - I still don't get it when people say the kids don't get in. They have to go somewhere, right? Can the schools just shut you out and your children don't go to school? It doesn't seem likely. They would have to give them a spot SOMEWHERE?? right??

How about Woking? 15 minutes from Cobham, 15 mins from guildford, 25 mins on the train into waterloo and the tube connection isn't too bad either. Primary schools are excellent, secondarys aren't too bad. Its quite a bit cheaper than guildford too. Its a lovely lovely friendly town - I would definitely recommend it!

We looked at Morden too - its not that great. I wouldn't. Compared to Woking you don't actually save THAT much time either to make up for the increased price and not so nice area.

Schools - if they don't get in I think they have to allocate them a space somewhere eventually but it could be miles and miles away and be an awful awful school. Sorry to scare you. Morden district is the most overcrowded in terms of school places. Some friends of mine lived in SW London and they literally had NO school place (primary though) the council had to pay for them to stay at nursery until they were allocated.

You may find this blog by an American who moved from Seattle to London a few years ago useful (there is a tag 'moving to London' but you'll probably find it most useful to start at the very beginning and scan read from there onwards)

anexpatinlondon.blogspot.co.uk

Friday, October 16, 2009 is particularly pertinent.

Thanks for the blog. It's not quite applicable to me as she was young and kid-less and could afford a 3000 pound flat in downtown with a roommate! What the blog did do was give me an anxiety attack - if a single woman was planning to make about 4000 pounds take home, pay 1500 for a flat, and just about break even each month, how am I supposed to do the same thing with 5 people????? Is it even possible????

Hillingdon would get you more for your money than central London andthere's some nice areas .Ickenham and ruislip are very nice and easy to escape to countryside. Some very good schools but not sure how easy to get the right schools mid year. Certainly a different life to central London but London is still there and accessible when you want it.

I think you will be shocked by a lot of prices...

Travel is shockingly expensive which is why living in central London might be the best way forward. Rail fares from outside London are HUGE!

The school system us also very different from the US. There is no right to a place at a local school. The education authorities will find a place for your children once you arrive but it could be some distance away. Hence London gives you more possibilities closer to your eventual home.

Once you've got your head round these things (and you seem to have a very sensible attitude) the move will be a superb opportunity for the family.

Would it really be a superb move? Life might be a bit of a struggle - not one but 3 dc to get into school. Salary not amazing From reading your op one of the main reasons for coming was to explore the uk and europe. Europe is expensive too - are you going to have the disposable income to do any travelling? I would not move.if it meant my family was going to struggle financially.

It sound like you are giving up a very comfortable life. I know usa holiday.allowances are pants but have you considered the option of your DH negotiating a month.or so vacation and saving then, doing an extended trip to europe.

Imo the uk is not a worldclass place to live ( london is a worldclass city to visit though) and ( flame me) places mentioned in this thread i would be wary of moving with my kids - gangs, knife crimes... Im a little niave scottish girl though!