Fourth miscarriage

[amelied]

Hi - Im on for some advice please?

Had a second scan this morning to confirm last week's scan that I have had my fourth miscarriage. My history is im 40 - 41 at the end of the month, trying for four years for #1. Have had recurrent miscarriage tests after my second miscarriage and on paper there is nothing wrong with myself or DH.

#1 miscarriage - started spotting at 6+4 weeks. Natural miscarriage
#2 miscarriage - mmc - found at 7 week scan and confirmed at 9 week scan - D&C.
#3 miscarriage - scan at 8 weeks, could see a slight heartbeat but sizing not right, natural miscarriage at 9 weeks.

Last week's scan was at 7+4 weeks - no heartbeat found and measurements were for six weeks. No spotting or pain - Probable D&C this week.

I have gone as far as I could with NHS finishing off with six months of Clomid and a hysterocopy. Had an appointment with private fertility clinic when I found out I was pregnant with #4 pregnancy. We were thrilled and the consultant started me off with Clexane, Predosoline and baby asprin. I think injecting myself gave me a pro-active opinion and we felt we had hope this time.

If you have got through this far - thank you!

My question is I dont seem to get past the six weeks mark. Has anyone else had this situation and gone onto have a full term pregnancy? Have you been given any other medication to help you through the 12 weeks mark? Or is there a name for this problem I
seem to have?

I have a follow up appointment on the 24th of this month and would like to be armed with questions.

Many thanks for all your advice in advance.

Dear Amelied, hope you are holding up ok - love Ali xxx

Amelied - I am so sorry for your losses. I have had 2 MCs recently, at the moment I am researching about MCs and what to do so not much advice to give.

MegMum - you mentioned acupuncture - where do you go to? There are so many practitioners but tough to know which are any good?

hi northlondon , i had one session of acupuncture from someone who is highly, highly recommended shortly after my fourth MC. will give you details when we meet up. It was a mixed experience for me but she was convinced she could help me and very disappointed i had not come to her after my first or second miscarriage, saying the others could have been avoided. i don't know what to believe - the thing is in this situation you clutch at any straws, and hearing that sort of thing makes you desperate to try it. but it's expensive....
MegMum did you get to see yau today? If so i hope it was a positive appointment. Also did you know that a few of us from this forum are meeting up in central London next week? it's a bit of an experiment really. email me on [email protected] if you would like to join us, either this time or perhaps another time as it's such short notice.
I think so many of us feel we don't have many people who really understand what it's like to go through recurrent miscarriage.

Dear Amelied I hope you are feeling ok this evening, I am thinking of you. Tomorrow will not be as bad as today. xx
KissMummy I got on ok at the Lister today and after much discussion Yau Thum has agreed to let me take prednisolone from the time of ovulation rather than a + ve test. he didn't seem to think it would make much difference and I think he agreed to shut me up but I wanted to try something different. He also talked about IvIG as an option in the future if steroids repeatedly failed. Anyone else heard of/ considered this? it sounds brutal and expensive. I feel so much better having spoken to him and am gearing up to try again. A friend who has also suffered from recurrent m/carrage said something really wise today, which was whilst you are not pregnant the outcome can only be a negative one, where at least if you are pregnant, you are still in the running, which is cold comfort but true,I suppose.
Hi northlondonchoclover I am so sorry about your miscarriages, hang in there. I go for acupuncture at this clinic in Chelsea called Balance - they are lovely there and it is on my way home from work but it is pricey. Someone recommended the acupuncturist to me, she is called Archna Patel and is wonderful and knows all ablout recurrent miscarriage and has treated many women successfully. I know she lives in Wembley so might agree to see you privately if you are in North London. Google Balance the Clinic and you can call her. I really felt it made a difference in the pregnancy I had that was successful but it is a big financial outlay.

Hi kissmummy - yes willing to consider anything at this point . DH rather against acupuncture as he knew someone whose bad back got severely worse after, and thought that I was losing my marbles for wanting to try it!

Hello, sorry i cant not join in with this i hope that you dont think i am gatecrashing.

It was your last comment that got my attention "I think so many of us feel we dont have many people who really understand what its like to go through reoccurent miscarriage".

I am absolutely at that stage right now.
I had my 5th mc 5 weeks ago.

#1 bleeding and pain at 6 weeks, mc at home

#2 small bleed, dx blighted ovum, opted to naturally mc, did eventually at 13 weeks, (hospital as pain was horrific)

succesful pregnancy (ds is 6 now)

#3 bleed 6 weeks dx blighted ovum, medically managed, ended at 7 weeks(hospital..horrific pain again)

#4 bleed,7 weeks dx blighted ovum, medically managed, mc 8 weeks (hospital..pain again)

#5 scan at 6 weeks, nothing, probable blighted ovum, 2nd scan at 7 weeks...baby, heartbeat there, 10 weeks, bleed & pain, mc 10 weeks.(hospital..pain horrific)

Supposedly seing gynae consultant over last year..never seen him, always see juniors.
Got an appointment with him in 2 weeks.
Meant to be starting clomid in Feb.

No one gets it, no one knows, no one can help me.
I am 40 this year.

Going to try one more time.

I feel your pain sunburnt.

Willing to try anything really that might have the remotest chance of making the next PG successful.Trying to get herbs sent over from Asia. Will be seeing my GP and will ask her for blood tests. Thanks MegMum, for the acupuncture contact, I will check it out.

And I know if I get pregnant again, it will be a nightmare of constant knicker-checking

During the last PG, I had 2 nightmares of bleeding. And indeed I MCed.

Its such a brutal horibble trick by mothernature!

Oh, sunburn, so sorry for your losses .

MegMum paraphrased something that a good friend of mine and I reached as a conclusion in all our trials of babymaking: the first condition for even the possibility of a positive outcome, is to become pregnant in the first place (we had a rather morbid competition who was worse off: me with conceiving but miscarrying, or her with all sorts of problems preventing her from conceiving. She has a DC now as well ).
It is just so hard and energy-sapping to expose yourself to the possibility of disappointment over and over again...

Re knickerchecking Northlondon: I never bled with any of my (missed)MCs, but bled repeatedly in the pregnancy that turned out to be DS2 - how is that for a headf**k (sorry to be rude, but still reeling from that pregnancy, even though it ended with healthy albeit premature child)?

amelied, hope you are ok tonight. Thinking of you.

PacificDogwood - hmm it seems every woman's experience is so different. And totally designed to press all the 'mad woman/paranoid buttons'

It strikes me as so weird that PG symptoms are similar to PMS symptoms. And that some women have so many PG symptoms and others have none but sail through. My (very short) PGs was almost driving me mad with all the conflicting information out there and signals my body is sending out.

Northlondon, yes, every woman's experience is different - and every pregnancy too. I am currently on pregnancy No8 (30 weeks, so quietly optimistic) and it has been the weirdest experience of them all... but hey, if the outcome is the desired one, who cares?!

It is strange that PMT and pregnancy symptoms can be so similar, you are so right, I had not thought of that before... Personally, I really think a healthy dose of denial/head in sand helped me through some of the really anxious times of early pregnany.
Having said that, having seen fetal heart on scan and then not like sunburn is just awful .
I could still quote you the EDDs of my lost pregnancies, not that that does anybody any good.

I suppose, head down and just keep going is what I am suggesting? Darn, all this sounds so trite, sorry!

I am off to bed, not making sense even to myself.

Hello ladies
re knicker checking, I spent all my failed pregnancies and indeed my one successful pregancy in what can only be described as a state of suspended terror, grabbing at my boobs to see if they were still sore and checking knickers every two minutes, dreading going to the loo, all the markers of other people's babies being born and your due dates coming and going and a big fat nothing to show for it, hormones racing up and then crashing down. It did not subside and in my successful pregnancy I went into a state of shock after delivery as I never expected it to happen even when I was in labour, I could not bring myself to buy anything for the baby or anything until after she was born. I have been pysically sick before scans with the fear and tension. what a bloody nightmare it all is, it's a wonder we are not all in a loony bin!! I have comfort eaten for Britain through it all!

It is a sad fact that we are now in positions where a pregnancy test going positive doesn't bring a rush of joy, but a rush of dread and a pregnancy is fraught with anxiety. The last one I lost last week, I was a bit blase, thinking I had cracked the problem and I wonder if it was punishment for being a bit cocky.

Sunburnt, I know how you feel now and the place you are in and am so sorry about your lost babies, but you can and will keep going and 40 is no age, as long as you are conceiving, it's irrelevant. Lots of love and luck to you.

Good morning Ladies!

Thank you all so much for thinking of me. Yesterday went well and so far, touch wood, pain free and hardly any bleeding. Just have to get over this "empty" feeling now BUT I have a goal to get myself fit and well to start IVF in March.

Alibobster Ali - as always, thank you and hope 2010 is a better year for everyone on this thread. x

NorthLondonChocLover Im sorry to hear of your two losses and would be interested to hear about your research findings x

Sunburntats My love, im so sorry to hear of your losses also. Can I ask why you are going to be given Clomid in February?? The reason I ask and this is purely my personal opinion, is I was given Clomid 18 months ago.

Some background: At the time I was given it I was actually pregnant but didnt know so it lay in a drawer; this pregnancy resulted in my second miscarriage. I was then given the recurrent miscarriage tests which would have taken ten weeks to come back with the results so we were careful until we knew the results, which fortunately came back clear. I then became pregnant the following month which resulted in my third miscarriage. After another meeting with the hospital consultant I started on Clomid for three months - no pregnancy but did have the Day 21 test that confirmed I was ovulating. Stopped after three months so I could have a Hysterocopy (sp?) then went back to take the last three months that I had - again nothing happened. Did become pregnant the following month ( the one I have just lost.) The reason I ask you about Clomid is, have you had tests to show if you are ovulating?? I have read on here that if you are ovulating, and to me you sound as if you are, then Clomid has the reverse affect. Now this is the opinion of ladies on this website and I dont know if they are of the medical profession but in my case and also of a friend of mine who took Clomid when she was ovulating, it makes sense...

My opinion is that I was given Clomid as the Consultant was at a loss to what she could do for me next (on the NHS). I was too old to go on the IVF waiting list. Does anyone else have an opinion on this? I feel like I have "lost" six months on this drug but also I have crossed off another experiment on the list.

The month I used Preseed for the first time was the month I became pregnant - coincidence or luck??

I totally agree with Megmum25 - any pregnancy for me has been fraught - I will never have that excitement of a BFP, planning a 36 week "future", it has been constant knicker-checking, looking for symptoms etc etc.

PacificDogwood it was great to hear Dr Gaudoin has been successful with your patients - I am back to see him on the 21st of this month with PROGESTERONE high on my list of conversation .

Hello ladies, Hope you don't mind me gatecrashing in on this thread. Myheart goes out to all of you. I've been there too and I know how devastating each mc is.

My story.
MC at about 6 weeks (accidental pg)
2years later MC at 10 weeks with an EPRC done
DS born one year later
MC at 6 weeks April 07
MC at 9 weeks Feb 08(scan at 6 weeks at heartbeat seen)
MC at 11 weeks July 08(heartbeat seen at early scan at 6 weeks) EPRC done as bleeding needed to be stopped
DS2 born in May last year

I think what made the difference with DS2 was

1. reflexology - I went to get help with TTC because of the gap between April and conceiving again. I then had to see another reflexologist as my first one emigrated who treated my MCs. She treated me all the way through my pg.
2. Scans weekly from 6 weeks by a recurrent MC consultant
3. EPRCs ( is it coinidence my 2 successful pgs have followed my 2 EPRCs?)

We are going to TTC again shortly with trepidation as history suggests that heartache is likely.

I am 39. 40 at the end of the year.

I hope my story gives you hope though. 5 mcs and 2 succesful pgs.

Good luck to you all.

xx

AmelieD. I feel sure that one day you will have that joyous moment. Don't despair. Have a lovely pampering weekend and keep warm up there as it's chilly chilly

MegMum25 thanks - being treated like a princess by DH.

Welcome HeadlessLadyH and thank you for your story. The only time I became pregnant extremely quickly was after my EPRC too. One (blunt-speaking) doctor likened an EPRC to being "Mr Muscle" for the womb...

HeadlessLadyH Was wondering about reflexology - it is the only complementary therapy I haven't tried while ttc!! Had a session once on a day spa package but I have a strange aversion to feet so couldnt say I enjoyed it much but would be willing to try anything x

MegMum25 you mentioned B6, B complex, Magnesium, Selenium etc are you taking these individually or as a conception multivitamin??

If individual what amounts are you taking?
x

Hello. I had blood taken on day 21 of my cycle, progesterone levels were.....7, apparently my pal who has severe pcos had prgesterone levels of 40 on day 21 before taking any medication!!!!

Have to say that i feel a bit like they are just trying to shut me up, and shove me out of the door, giving me medication to be going on with!
I am not convinced tbh BUT am pretty much desperate now

I am on a high protein diet, taking pregnancy vitamins cut out coffee and all alcohol.
Last 2 pregnancies happened about 6-7 months apart and all occurred while following this regime.
So we are having one last go.
Funnily enough i wanted to wait for Af after my last mc, as i felt that it was the equivilent to a spring clean of the old uterus!
Ive had more arrivals and departures in my womb than Virgin fecking airways! Its like a patch work quilt in there!!!

Sunburntats glad to see you have still got your smile.

I was told that anything from 30 upwards means you have ovulated so if you were 7 then Clomid is your best friend then and can help you.

Your regime sounds good and I should follow it too... had a Peroni with dinner - my first drink since last October.

Can i ask, with your mcs, was it very painful?

Other people who i have spoken to who have suffered mc, dont say anything about the pain.

Mine have always been excrucaiting. Needed morphine, gas and air, tramadol and paracetamol, and still had pain.
Im no wuss either, i suffer from very painful periods.

Just curious.

#1 was at 6 weeks, started spotting and took up to a week to happen - was like a heavy period and could be controlled with painkillers.

#2 was a missed miscarriage so EPRC - that was a nightmare, started to have real pain 45mins after the put the pesseries in - they gave me morphine, enough for an hour to take me up to the time I was due in theatre BUT then found out the operation before me had complications and was in agony for 30mins after the morphine wore off - was begging to be taken to theatre. Minimal bleeding and pain afterwards.

#3 knew from a scan that there was a sizing issue with the dates I gave them and it didnt look good but had to go back the following week. Started bleeding the night before the second scan and lost the pregnancy the morning of the scan - just took painkillers and it was over in two days. Bled for 6 days afterwards.

#4 Missed miscarriage again and went in yesterday for EPRC - had the last experience on my mind and told the staff that I had to have morphine the last time BUT had no problems at all yesterday. Minimal bleeding today and havent had to take any painkillers just a hot water bottle to bed last night.

Hey Ladies,
Thank you for all your kind words.

amelied how you hanging on in there?
Hot water bottles rule! I also have my cat who makes a pretty good one too!

sunburn Love the analogy ditto!

Well I'm feeling.... numb really, yesterday went as well as it could have, minimal bleeding and pain. Should hopefully get a result in a few weeks re if it was a chromosome abnormality?!?

Hello all,
First week back to work all done and dusted. went in to a desk full of......boxes of chocolates, bickies and bottles of wine! Bless them all. The girls i share the office with all said that folk from other depts came in with goodies for me as well.

Hmm not much fecking good NOW im on a diet, needed all that stuff over xmas while my innards were exiting my body!

Having moments of feeling remarkably ok, calm, philosophicaal, happy to move on and to crack on as it were.
Every now and again i feel myself welling up, little things really, so im not totally ok i spose.

Af finshed so its back to it now, ive even written dates down this time, i know i shouldnt but it makes me feel in control over some thing that i have no control over iyswim.

I know EXACTLY what you mean about the bfp and not feeling excited, i remember vividly how i felt the 1st time i had a bfp, i have never felt that since. feel robbed of that some times as much as when i lost my pregnancies.
For the last 3 pregnancies i have found myself doing odd things, like wearing black underwear all the time, because that way i cant see the bleeding and so can deny that anything is wrong for longer.
Wont think ahead at due dates, wont accept that the bfp is correct, fixing in my mind that it is a faulty test etc.
That kind of mental thought processing isnt in any way how it should be for any one.
Its so unfair.

Also i am ashamed to say that i have been thinking some very unchariatle thoughts about the poor treatment i have recieved over the years, and about the fact that there is very little help out there unless you can afford to go private. yet the NHS spend millions every year on alcoholics and drug addicts. How i have worked and paid NI &tax since i was 17 years old, and have had nothing worth anything (except for a 60p vial of morphine for pain) from the NHS for that. Im getting bitter and a bit twisted, not like me at all, but that adds to the fact that its just so fucing unfair.

Any way, lets see what 2010 brings us all....hopefully lovely things in prams eh

What is Preseed?

evening Ladies - hope you are all well and keeping warm!

Mrs Gazebo Glad yesterday went well for you - it is not the best experience to have in life but if it can help the situation and help life move on better...

im fine thank you, have been really fortunate this time no pain and hardly any bleeding.

You asked about Preseed? I had heard about it on here and was recommended Access Diagnostics website. It is a sperm friendly lubricant that is mean to help sperm find its way... It is a bit bizarre at first as you apply with a syringe and wait 15 mins before any action for it too warm up (or something). I was calling it a miracle as I got pregnant using it first time but maybe a coincidence. It cant hurt tying I suppose. I think it cost around £14.00 + P&P and I think I read on here about a similar Boots product.

Sunburntats Glad you have got through the first week. Im going back on Wednesday although my brilliant boss has been texting me saying only come back when I feel up to it but I need to get back to some normality too. Enjoy that chocolate, wine etc - life is for living...

I hear ya about how the NHS distribute their cash - I would love to know how much junkies cost the system ...

the one that really irks myself and my DH is when we go up to the maternity unit, worried out of our minds that this scan is going to be like the others and we are met with extremely pregnant mums-to-be puffing on their fags and coughing away ...

I have had quite a good day, considering. My Mum came round at lunchtime and we were talking over the last couple of days and she said to me (in a kind way) that I have to live my life, that the past 4.5 years I have been so focused on ttc that I have kind of lost my old self/life. She was so right - I have been filling this baby-shaped hole in my life with research, not doing things just "in case im pregnant",not using certain products "in case im pregnant", being the lemon with the lemonade at functions/night-outs just "in case Im pregnant" etc etc etc. I should be kicking up my heels, living life and it made me sad to think I wont get that time back again. I HAVE BEEN A BLOODY NIGHTMARE....

SO, I have had a productive afternoon - even if it is just for fun. I have been looking at a holiday for this summer, doing some of my notorious research on finding accommodation for a place we had visited in Italy when we were on honeymoon. I have made a list of what needs done in our house/garden. I have done some on-line clothes shopping. I have ordered some on-line items for Christmas 2010 pressies ( I will be soooo heavily pregnant at the time I wont be able to go out and shop ). I have the latest Marian Keyes lined up to start reading tomorrow, I have stripped the bed and tided up the bedroom as it resembled a crime scene. I am just trying to channel y grief into something else although I know it is going to hit me sometime.

Sorry for my ramblings, have a lovely evening girls xxx