Has anyone NOT been on HRT? Has the menopause been ok if so?

[ForeverDelayedEpiphany]

I'm 44, and think my body has been in perimenopause since my youngest daughter was born in 2020.

Literally textbook symptoms, itchy ears, hot flushes, weird tingling, itchy skin, horrible palpitations and awful waves of anxiety, much worse migraines, dry eyes, thinner hair... it's not been too good, but it's been bearable.

The thing is, I am extremely sensitive to medication side effects, especially ones that affect the endocrine system. I have a medication induced neurological involuntary movement disorder called tardive dyskinesia that is like Tourette's and Parkinson's disease combined (and was caused by an off label antipsychotic). When I had to use some antifungal cream for thrush after breastfeeding once, it made my involuntary movements worse (as I think it is probably something that affects oestrogen and therefore dopamine receptors (.

Anyway, my rambling post is basically a way of saying I'm not sure about HRT but perimenopause symptoms aren't really great and seem to be getting worse.

Has anyone been through the menopause but not taken HRT? If so, how are you doing? Has it been ok?

You could give it a go, in small doses. Good quality sourdough (artisan stuff!), expensive pasta, I'm OK with those now. What really sets me off is biscuits and things like breaded fish (the breadcrumbs).

No HRT since I had breast cancer in my 30s - I had my last period at 46 years old. Seven years later … I’ve survived.

Snap!!

And I think this is part of the issue/confusion with peri/post menopause, our experiences can be So different. Peri was fine for me, no symptoms bar my periods returning only bi monthly after the birth of my first child, then less frequent then stopping, have never had hot flushes. Post menopause my life fell off a cliff within a couple of years, insomnia, brain fog, memory issues, joint pain, disassociation, no real joy or interest in life

That's reassuring about sourdough and pasta! Might give it a try, just to see.

You’re determined to air the victim badge, are you not? No idea whether it’s personal or you’re just sticking up for others but there is another way, that of choosing not to presume HRT is the only method of ‘coping’ with menopausal issues, grabbing that prescription when offered by a harried GP.
I mentioned I had sleep issues - pretty horrendous at their worst - but these were overcome completely as time wore on. That’s down to individual fortitude, not meds.

Have another 🏅
If it had only been a year of sleep deprivation, I might feel similarly smug.

I never went on HRT and the menopause is well behind me. I had symptoms in peri - lots of different ones that came and went. The worst one was anxiety. I tried to address each symptom on an individual basis eg therapy for anxiety, change of diet for weight gain and so on. About 2 or 3 years after menopause my hormones seem to have settled down and things feel pretty calm.

You don’t get it do you?

I do. Do you?

Not engaging with you again.

I didn't start taking hrt until 3 years after my last period.

I didn't notice perimenopause and my periods just stopped at 52 after being quite regular.

I've never had a hot flush or rage or put weight on. I thought I sailed through then after about 3 years I started with bladder issues and became so achy I felt about 90. I could barely get my socks on and actually had to get down on the floor to put food in the cats bowl. I'm slim and reasonably fit and I found this increasingly demoralising.

Once i started hrt my joint aches disappeared after 3 days, the difference was incredible. Also, my bladder issues are now much improved thank God thanks to ovestin cream.

For context, 85% of women do not use HRT.
So this thread is going to reflect that. But 75% of women have moderate symptoms for years (this is on the BMS website, so it's not 'opinion'.)

Around 15% of women have long term symptoms. Some for life. The UK's top menopause consultants vouch for this (online interviews etc) and in the info on the British Menopause Society website.

It is extremely frustrating to read about women who “wouldn’t have survived” without HRT when I and others simply can’t take HRT without risking a return of cancer which we literally wouldn’t survive. “Coping” might be a poor substitute for enjoying life, but it’s better than the alternative.

I think it's a shame that this thread has been hijacked by pro-HRT users when OP has clearly asked for the experiences of those who have managed or are managing menopause without it. As @Blarney22 says, lots of women cannot take HRT because they've either had cancer or have discovered they are at high risk of developing it (which is why I've had to come off it) and it's also why OP started the thread, because her medical issues might preclude her from taking it. But instead of letting us share our experiences and having our voices heard, it's comment after comment about why we should take it or posters are being accused of being smug for saying they did fine without it. Please, save your pro-HRT comments for a different thread and let us have this one.

Thank you 😊 It's been quite good to read both sides, I must say, even if there are some of the more "pro-HRT" replies, which I don't have a problem with per se.

It's great to hear the things people who've not taken HRT say, especially as it's been mostly positive. I've got a bit more hope that I may be ok if I don't take any, but we'll see how my symptoms progress (or not, hopefully!)

If my movement disorder symptoms suddenly deteriorated, or if I found myself with horrible atrophy, I know it's hopefully resolvable with HRT. The only thing I can't say for definite is how I might react to extra doses of hormones, and whether my brain would thank me or not lol 😅

I've been following this thread with interest as while I do get benefits from HRT, I am also really struggling with some side effects so considering trying without. I agree that the point here isn't about whether HRT is good or bad - it's about what it's like without it if you can't take it or tolerate it well. It's good to know that it is possible!

Well it is an opinion though whether it’s on the BMS website or not. What is being reported is literally peoples opinion on whether they have symptoms and to what degree. There seems to be little agreement on what symptoms are related to menopause as it seems to be ever expanding and what is defined as ‘moderate symptoms’ is going to be a matter of opinion and will differ between individuals as well as across time and cultures.

I am very suspicious of private medicine and Big Pharma and I would not be so trusting of ‘the UKs top menopause consultants’ They clearly have skin in the game as their careers, reputations and finances are invested in menopause being a medicalised issue. I found the Panorama documentary very worrying and in line with the way I feel about this topic. I’m a Dr myself so I know a lot of Drs and they are humans and they get swayed by popular narratives and like to make extra money just as much as people in every other profession.

I am of course not saying that no one should have HRT. I am glad that it is there for those who are helped by it I am just suspicious of the prevailing narrative that it is the be all and end all and think it is refreshing to hear that many people are OK without it especially for those who do have medical contraindications or side effects where the risk benefit balance may not be in favour.

It can be hard for those of us who didn’t use it for good reasons as there is this pressure that it’s the magical answer and you fear that you will be the only one left a shrivelled up hag whilst others enjoy the benefits or you feel under pressure to keep trying endless different combos and paying out for private opinions when in fact you might be best to accept it’s not for you. It would be good to have a thread where you are allowed to say that you were OK without HRT without being called smug when just stating your genuine experience.

I didn't use HRT as my mum died with breast cancer caused by HRT.

The only problem I had was heavy periods.

I am very suspicious of private medicine and Big Pharma and I would not be so trusting of ‘the UKs top menopause consultants’ They clearly have skin in the game as their careers, reputations and finances are invested in menopause being a medicalised issue. I found the Panorama documentary very worrying and in line with the way I feel about this topic. I’m a Dr myself so I know a lot of Drs and they are humans and they get swayed by popular narratives and like to make extra money just as much as people in every other profession.

@ThePure I wasn't going to post again here as it's getting very contentious.
However, as you've quoted me, I will just this time.

The consultants I am talking about are NHS gynaecologists. You appear to assume they are private. Some do have private practices as well but they also work in the NHS.

Menopause is a small part of their work. Most of it is other gynaecology including surgery. I'm not referring to drs on the TV who are mainly GPs.

If they do treat patients with menopause they do not automatically prescribe HRT. There are many women who need help with menopause who can't use HRT or don't want it. They offer other treatments to those women.

May I ask if the physical symptoms were breast cysts? In a similar situation

I'm actually in agreement with you with regards to Big Pharma (or Big PHARMa as I call them after being injured by that damn typical antipsychotic 😢).

I try not to be too cynical or not trusting, as I've been helped tremendously by them in lots of ways on many occasions, incredibly caring and really brilliant acute emergency care when I had surgery for sn ectopic pregnancy, and when my youngest daughter broke her arm.

It's just the past decade has been so tough health-wise for me, particularly as it began with an avoidable (and self inflicted in some ways) concussion and then post concussion syndrome. I've been through a lot of tough, terrifying times with my movement disorder tardive dyskinesia too, so i really try to actually avoid any medication or doctors unless absolutely necessary.

Obviously if I need to try HRT, I will, but very cautiously.

Well it is an opinion though whether it’s on the BMS website or not. What is being reported is literally peoples opinion on whether they have symptoms and to what degree. There seems to be little agreement on what symptoms are related to menopause as it seems to be ever expanding and what is defined as ‘moderate symptoms’ is going to be a matter of opinion and will differ between individuals as well as across time and cultures.

This is an excellent point. When the private menopause 'specialists' are now claiming that practically everything that could happen to your body and mind from late 30s onwards is menopause related, and presenting women with a list of literally hundreds of possible symptoms... well yes, of course the majority of women will say they are experiencing some of those symptoms.

It's textbook marketing - create a problem, sell the solution. A very vocal and profitable industry has sprung up around this and for proof you need to look no further than Mumsnet where we have an industry shill trawling the whole site - not just this topic - and spamming any thread mentioning menopause or HRT.

What could have been a valuable resource pointing posters to good sources of information has evolved into obsessively trying to force the new narrative and disrupt any conversation about alternative points of view. Sometimes their advice veers into recklessness, e.g. in this very thread where they have told the OP, who they know nothing about, that there is no risk in taking HRT at her age. Only the OP's actual HCPs are in a position to give that advice.

I've previously reported to MNHQ and been told they don't like to delete misinformation, they'd rather let it stand corrected by the community. So I encourage other posters to continue to scrutinise and challenge poor advice on this topic, especially when it involves specific medical advice that a poster is in no position to give.

Not fully through it yet but had lots of peri symptoms so tried it but have progesterone sensitivity so it really didn’t work for me and I had to come off it. Was prescribed Escitalapram which can be used for menopause symptoms and they all went away. Sleep like a log now with no flushes and lowered anxiety. Hoping they stay that way. I’m persevering with the flooding at the moment and hoping that that will pass but it is inconvenient x

I have APS and there is plenty of alternatives of HRT. Oestrogen is essential and menopause lowers levels to zero and oestrogen is the main essential thing running our bodies !

Not true. Menopause reduces the level of oestrogen. The levels pre menopause range between 30-400pg/ml, they fluctuate considerably through the menstrual cycle, post menopausally they range between 0-30pg/ml. So for some women the level is very low, for others it may be closer to pre menopause. This may account for women’s differing experiences.

As someone who is currently taking an aromatase inhibitor to block the action of oestrogen and who is definitely post menopausal, why would this be necessary if my oestrogen levels were zero. It is only given to post menopausal women or women who have been chemically or surgically forced into post menopause.

A high proportion of post menopausal women are diagnosed with hormone positive breast cancer, if our oestrogen levels were zero surely this wouldn’t be possible.

I would much prefer to have zero oestrogen and not need to take drugs that cause unpleasant side effects but the drugs reduce the recurrence and spread of hormone positive breast cancer by nearly 50% so the benefit is worth it. Hopefully the new immunotherapy drugs in development will mean we will have alternatives in the future and a real cure.