Has anyone NOT been on HRT? Has the menopause been ok if so?

[ForeverDelayedEpiphany]

I'm 44, and think my body has been in perimenopause since my youngest daughter was born in 2020.

Literally textbook symptoms, itchy ears, hot flushes, weird tingling, itchy skin, horrible palpitations and awful waves of anxiety, much worse migraines, dry eyes, thinner hair... it's not been too good, but it's been bearable.

The thing is, I am extremely sensitive to medication side effects, especially ones that affect the endocrine system. I have a medication induced neurological involuntary movement disorder called tardive dyskinesia that is like Tourette's and Parkinson's disease combined (and was caused by an off label antipsychotic). When I had to use some antifungal cream for thrush after breastfeeding once, it made my involuntary movements worse (as I think it is probably something that affects oestrogen and therefore dopamine receptors (.

Anyway, my rambling post is basically a way of saying I'm not sure about HRT but perimenopause symptoms aren't really great and seem to be getting worse.

Has anyone been through the menopause but not taken HRT? If so, how are you doing? Has it been ok?

Yes it is. Look up menopausal gingivostomatitis. I was diagnosed it by my dentist alongside bruxism.

Erm, it's definitely a perimenopause symptom. My oral health has been impeccable until 5 years ago when my perimenopause symptoms started.

So, it's not coincidence. Hormones play a HUGE part and I notice a massive sudden change in increased bleeding and swelling before my periods now, that never happened before in the whole time from my periods starting aged 9

It's totally and absolutely hormonal. My dentist said it is too.

I have never had any form of gingivitis whatsoever in my life. Or bleeding gums. It started after my youngest daughter was born, which tied in with post natal hormones dropping and my hormones changing with perimenopause. It's definitely all hormonal.

I don't need to look it up. I have gingivitis caused by 20 years of smoking, combined with a genetic component. I brushed my teeth once or twice a day, often forgot to floss, and the combination became serious in my early 50s. My dentist, which I visited every 3-4 years referred me to a periodontist to deal with my gingivitis. I can write an essay here with the advice I've received from my oral specialist (which I see every 6 months now for deep cleaning gums) but won't.

We all believe what we want to.

Me. Symptoms were more along the lines of migraines and emotional lability, but no periods now for 14 years. I’m underweight with 2 previous fractures, which made me request a DEXA scan, this showed osteopenia. Follow up scan in 3 years, vitamin D3 supplements, and continuing weight training, running and joint health.

Sorry, are you are saying my dentist is wrong?

Well, as I've never needed any more treatment than the necessary ones before for my oral health, it's highly unlikely my mouth has suddenly deteriorated to such an extent that I had something "brewing" for years. 😳😑 I'm pretty sure my dentist would have picked something up if it had.

You smoked and that is a key factor. My DB had gingivitis and that was caused by smoking.

As you correctly say, gingivitis has multiple causes, including greater susceptibility during perimenopause because of how the mouth is more vulnerable without protection from certain hormones and good bacteria.

It's not quite as black and white as you are saying IMHO.

And I saw a top private periodontal hygienist who told me that HRT would help me reduce the gingivitis flares.

I've never smoked so my mouth is definitely not unhealthy because of that risk factor.

I seriously doubt your dentist has told you your gingivitis is caused by perimenopause.

I engaged in this thread because I think HRT is something important for women to discuss, but I refuse to keep engaging the way this thread has developed.

I'm done.

For those who struggle with a dry mouth I have found sugar free chewing gum is really good for encouraging saliva production, I use it every time I walk the dog or go shopping etc.

Not very Mumsnetty though😂

Slight overreaction; people can have opinions.

Dental hygiene is affected by many things, why would you think hormones don't play a part? Teenage girls can get some gingivitis before their periods, so it seems logical women who are perimenopausal might too. 😳

Makes sense in some ways?

I'm shocked by your response. Where would I have possibly heard about menopausal gingivostomatitis if not from my dentist?!! I was diagnosed at the same time as my bruxism and have been treated for both. HRT did alleviate the symptoms but I have since stopped taking it and I'm hoping neither returns.

I find it incredibly arrogant of you to assume you know better than my dentist! Not to mention you're essentially calling me a liar.

Exactly 💯. I think some people don't think outside of their boxes or just assume there are no other factors or causes involved, other than what they believe or experience 🤔

I'm glad you can see it is true, thank you. I was starting to doubt myself a bit lol

@ForeverDelayedEpiphany Don't doubt yourself, believe your dentist! I wouldn't have even made the connection between my mouth/teeth issues and peri if my dentist hadn't done her research. HRT did help. Now I've come off it I'm worried it might flare up again but I do feel like I'm through the worst now after four years on it.

It really isn’t the case that ‘the only way’ OP can get help with managing her symptoms is to see ‘a specialist’ aka pay a private Dr who is making money out of making this a medication requiring issue. She could see her own NHS GP for a start.

@ThePure

I suggested a specialist because the OP clearly has some complex problems. Some GPs know very little about menopause and there has been some shocking mis-prescribing too, quoted here. Women prescribed the wrong type, not told how to use it, every single day there are these posts.

I didn't say she had to see a specialist privately. It's certainly one way to see a dr more quickly, but the one I would have suggested if she wanted a name, works in a major NHS hospital too.

No dr will make anything a 'medication requiring issue' to make money.
I suggested she takes advice from a specialist because she's unsure if HRT would suit her with her current medical issues. She's suffering quite severe peri symptoms and the starting point is can she take HRT and if yes, would she want to?

Menopause specialists (gynaecologists) don't automatically prescribe HRT; they look at the individual patient and discuss their symptoms, pros and cons, and may suggest other things - even just lifestyle changes.

@ForeverDelayedEpiphany One of the effects of loss of estrogen is gum shrinkage. This is well known.

One thing to think about is how were you during pregnancy? You have the highest levels of hormones then , far more than not being pregnant and a tiny fraction supplementing with hormones.

I was extremely well during pregnancy, it really suited me. I would have stayed constantly pregnant lol 😆 The maximum hormones did me the world of good, so you have a great point there - it's definitely food for thought. It also proved that my body is obviously optimal health wise with hormones, and it's slightly worrying how much a decrease may (or not!) impact my health in future 🙏

For information only (not trying to sway your choice over what to do) most HRT prescribed now is called body-identical. This means it's exactly the same as our own estrogen and progesterone.

There are some that aren't- namely the progestogen in patches, the Mirena coil and all tablet forms of HRT. The closest to body-identical in tablets is Femoston.

But at the moment, the trend is to prescribe oestrogen gel or an estrogen only patch, and micronised progesterone.

Also refused a scan , despite a number of stress fractures and a history of an eating distorter. Low weight, Asian heritage.

Has anyone been through the menopause but not taken HRT?
PP pointed out vast majority of women don't take HRT, presumably most are ok because most could get it, most just aren't that bothered to get it. I never have had HRT. I never had "perimenopause" problems, btw.

If so, how are you doing? Has it been ok?
I am fine. I have hot flushes sometimes which are a little annoying at worst. Getting irritated by something is what brings on the cortisol rush. I know people who liked their HRT a lot, which is fine too.

No one takes hrt because they have pathologised periods stopping and getting fat around the middle 🙄

I didn’t. I had several years of hot flushes and poor sleep but this coincided with a bereavement and a lot of other very stressful events. The pill caused awful side effects for me so I was scared to take any sort of artificial hormones after that experience.

For info, HRT is not artificial hormones.

There is so much misunderstanding about this, still.

Most forms of HRT are exactly the same as your own hormones.

It's not like the Pill or the mini pill which many women take for decades.

That's not entirely true.
Most are not okay but put up with symptoms.

The British Menopause Society which is independent and not 'selling HRT', but is made up of the top gynaecologists in the world, says that 75% of women have symptoms affecting quality of life, for up to 7 years on average and for 15+ years for 15%.

There are daily posts here from women who are not aware of vaginal estrogen for bladder issues for example.

Women given ADs by GPs when they should be following NICE guidance on this.

1:2 women over 50 with osteoporosis because NICE in its wisdom has decided not to have DEXA scan for women over 50, in spite of the evidence and input by the Royal Osteoporosis Society. There are 100,000 deaths a year from complications of osteoporosis (falls etc and hospitalisation often resulting in pneumonia/ death.)

Women's health is sadly neglected.