Oestrogel: new packaging (yet again)? - Thread 2

[ConfusedEasily]

Carrying on from a previous thread by Cosmetichamster which can be found here:

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/menopause/4696464-oestrogel-new-packaging-yet-again

You could ask to go on patches as they are jsut so easy . It’s kind of trial and error re the dosage but 2 pumps of the gel is equal to a 50 patch I believe. You don’t have to wait for them to dry - I use the estradot ones and they are tiny so even my husband doesn’t notice when they are on . I used the gel for 2.5 years before changing to the patch and it is much less time consuming as you don’t have to wait once you’re dressed. Good luck x

Thanks for this info, I will ask my GP to prescribe estrodot.

An aside: Slightly different subject but I recently met a woman nearly 80 yrs old, very slim fit active healthy and cheerful, she had great skin and hair and a youthful demeanour. She told me she was on HRT since forever and her GP had lately been asking her to come off it now due to her age and she said no way absolutely not.

I'm also in surgical menopause - 9 years and counting and I'm 54. Just be aware that there are some ongoing frequent supply issues with Estradot that have been an issue on and off since I've been using HRT. You might be better moving to a 50mcg Evorel so that you can at least guarantee that you'll be able to get them. You also may well have been post menopausal at the time of your surgery given your age and hence why no symptoms whilst adjusting to the gel at least, which would have been expected if you were perimenopausal at the time. I certainly experienced symptoms immediately after my surgery on the ward at the younger age of 46.

Thanks for this info @SebastianFlytesTrousers

I was in a strange and complex situation and having chronic daily bleeding for 17 months prior my surgery due to an severe internal injury sustained in a previous surgery. However, I was also still having regular menstrual cycles and it was confirmed my follicles were actively releasing eggs. So... seemingly I'd never started the menopause, even at the age of nearly 54.

However, I didn't have symptoms after surgery even though I wasn't given the gel for a few days. I've still had no symptoms.

Only symptom (apart from pain and agony) I had was feeling extremely cold, could have been down to various reasons including my haemoglobin / red blood cell count was low.

One thing makes me wonder, I've been strictly vegan for over 30 years. I consume a huge amount of soy products and drink a lot of soy milk. Even in the hospital I had sent down for soya latte from the public cafeteria. I wonder if phyto-oestrogens are what's made the difference?

I've noticed I get a slight tension headache within a few minutes after using the eostrogel and also my tinnitus is much worse since surgery.

Phytoestrogen consumption can indeed fill those receptors, but how much so I don't think is known as clinical studies are sparse. Be aware that it does take a while to deplete your own estrogen store following removal of the ovaries. You may be lucky and continue to have minimal symptoms though but let your prescriber know if you think things need tweaking.

Ah thanks for this info @SebastianFlytesTrousers

I was wondering if the body has stores of oestrogen and if so, where? but most people have told me I would have a sudden and immediate experience of hot flushes and other symptoms after the surgery, which I haven't.

Some googling informs me that adipose body fat stores oestrogen and as such I'm blessed with a little bit of that so maybe as I lose weight the oestrogen will emerge too.

I haven't posted for a while, but I have tried patches which made me pile on the weight. So I switched to sandrena gel 1mg, 2 sachets a day.
It took over 3 months for the gel to settle down, but I think I finally am starting to feel nearly as good as the old style bottle oestrogel.
The first few weeks were awful and I nearly gave up, every time I swap I get horrific migraines and feel so low. But I was determined to stick to it, I did speak to my doctor about swapping to oral tablets.
This was just before Christmas, so decided to stay on sandrena as I didn't want it to disrupt work at our busiest time.
I'm glad I did as its finally started to work. It's not as good a the old gel but it's better than patches and the weight I put on came off without dieting.

Thank you for posting re Sandrena. I've just switched to it and I was wondering if I'd done the wrong thing. My joints and insomnia are worse than ever. I shall persevere!

Some googling informs me that adipose body fat stores oestrogen and as such I'm blessed with a little bit of that so maybe as I lose weight the oestrogen will emerge too.

@LittleMissSunshiner It works the other way! The estrogen is in the fat cells and when you lose fat the estrogen declines too.

Ohhh I see... hmm I'm curious now as to how the mechanism works, whether as I'm losing weight I'm being slowly drip fed a bit of extra oestrogen or whether it just 'evaporates' somewhere else.

I've got approx 3 stone to lose to get back to my 'usual' weight as I gained weight whilst poorly from all the gynae issues due to chronic pain and constant daily bleeding. Being overweight is stressing my knees and worsening my back injury so it's a must.

I posted earlier to say I felt fine on the new Oestrogel but after a few days it was awful. I had numb patches on my legs which really worried me. I also had tachycardia at night time which woke me up a few times. I felt awful so I gave it a week then went back on to my old Oestrogel and the symptoms disappeared. I've got a GP appointment this week and I don't know what the hell to ask for. I felt great on the old Oestrogel.

@pharmachameleon I have awful heart palpitations when not on hrt or hrt that doesn't agree with me.
Mine was always worse at night, but so we're most of my menopause symptoms too.

Been fine on the old Oestrogel but in the last month or so the night flushes have returned with a vengeance and I'm woken up every 2-3 hours throughout the night. It's horrendous.

I said to my dh this morning it's as if there are a no active ingredient in the bloody bottle and then I compared 2 bottles to check the batch.

And then I've just found this thread! I can't believe it. It's outrageous.

I'll throw my hat in the ring too. If I hadn't discovered this thread I'd have honestly thought I'd gone mad. Thank God for mumsnet.
I've taken Oestrogel in the old packaging for several years now, and my symptoms have been stable and well managed. In the last six weeks or so (which coincided with using the new shaped bottle) I've been in freefall.
Hot flushes returning with a vengeance, very very teary for no reason, and worst of all is the insomnia, it's brought me to my knees.

But how on earth can we convey this to a GP? Like other posters I don't actually know what to say to my GP that doesn't make me sound like I've lost the plot;

GP - 'So how can I help you today?'
Me - 'My previously well controlled menopause symptoms are now out of control and seriously affecting my mental health and my ability to function, and I think it's because the manufacturer's have changed the shape of the bottle'

Heartfelt sympathy to all of you in this predicament, it's shocking.

Ugh. Absolute rubbish isn't it? I've got a GP appointment on Thursday and I'm dreading trying to appear sane telling her my menopausal symptoms have all returned simply because of a change in packing of Oestrogel. I know she'll think it's in my head! More so because I'm a hospital pharmacist and to be honest I don't really believe patients when they are admitted and tell me they have to use certain brands/manufacturers of medication because other manufacturers have side effects! Feel bad about that now.

I think all of you who have been affected by the change in the formula need to publicise it as far and wide as possible by writing comments on the companies social media pages.

Also filling out 'yellow card report forms', as to be ripped off your HRT is a medical event

I'm baffled as I was given this new style of Oestrogel and have no idea if it's actually working or not

I'm afraid to say that variations in the effectiveness of certain medications is very real and a terrible concern - there's not been enough research but when different brands have been quality control tested, they've varied wildly

I have one particular brand of zopiclone that has zero effect on me whatsoever, whereas all other brands do, so I have to ensure the pharmacist doesn't give me that one.

Likewise, in the past I would only agree to take Effexor / Venlafaxine from Pfeizer as other brands would make me quickly unwell as they weren't working.

As I have said above, I think people need to start using the yellow card scheme and also screaming off the roof tops about this!

I've been reading this thread for a few weeks now and it's been so reassuring that I'm not completely losing the plot! I could use a bit of advice though, oh wise women of Mumsnet!

I have only been using HRT for a few months, I started on one pump of oestrogel (conical bottle) and felt pretty good. My brain fog improved, which had been my main symptom. Increased to two pumps, still good. Got new prescription of cylindrical bottles, and it only took a week to all go to pot. Anxiety, very low mood, insomnia, and nausea. Got prescribed Sandrena gel instead, but couldn't collect over Christmas, so I had a break of about a week. Mood and sleep much improved. Started on the lowest possible dose of Sandrena (0.5), as quite scared to upset the apple cart. A week later, low mood and nausea, early waking with anxiety. What do I do? Stick with the Sandrena as it's only been a week, or stop completely and go back to the brain fog?

I tried the sandrena gel with in 48hrs felt absolutely awful awake 1-4am,hot flushes back with a vengeance and anxiety that had all been completely under control. I’ve used oestrogel for 6-7yrs very successfully until the last month when the bottle changed ffs it’s crap!

@NoBistoForYou it took months for the sandrena to settle down for me. Its still not as good as the old bottle oestrogel, but I couldn't get them at all.
I was on the oestrogel for years before the new bottle was introduced.

I was also settled on the old oestrogel but instead of going on another gel , I went onto patches which seem ok for me . Sometimes I get a bit of breakthrough joint pain but I can deal with a bit of that as it was nothing compared to the near breakdown I had a week into the new gel…. I will never try it again !

@Charla20 Which patches did you opt for?
I think they'll be my route out of this nightmare, but I don't know much about patches as I've only ever used the original Oestrogel bottle.

@ThisOrdinaryLife I went on to Estradot patches which have been fine - I was on 2 pumps of gel and am on 50 of the patch. What I would say is there are some times supply issues with this particular patch as it is very popular so you may want to try another however what I’m trying to say is don’t be afraid to try another delivery method other than gel - I was bit I soon got used to the patch and it’s good as there’s no waiting around for it to dry ☺️

@Charla20 Thank you. I too am on two pumps of gel so Estrodot is worth a try.
What do you do if it's out of stock, do you just go without?
My prescription provider is online and then by post so I never see a paper prescription anymore. This works fine for medication that has no supply issues but it means I have no flexibility with trying to locate an out of stock item from various chemists.

Morning all,
And the saga continues. I switched to patches after an absolutely miserable time on the new gel which was prescribed in July of this year.
Previously I was doing well on the old style with nothing major to report.
Although I didn’t connect it at the time , in August of this year I think I had some kind of breakdown.
Without going into too much detail and outing myself, I didn’t go on the family holiday as we were all packed and walking out the door to get in the car as I couldn’t stop crying and I also in the same period resigned from my job where I am generally happy. I rescinded it afterwards and it was accepted but not a great performance of mine.
I look back now on that time and I really had lost all sense of reality and I do not recognise that person.
I was also having really dark thoughts but that’s not for now and it is shocking that all this coincided with the change in medication.
I am on Evorel 50 now and doing ok.
I am more bloated but mood is stable and after what I (and my family) went through for those couple of months I’m happy to deal with some bloating. Horrible situation all round and I’m so sorry so many of us are suffering.