Sick of bastarding insomnia

[Floofydawg]

Been awake since 4.30am after a few hours of broken sleep. Been on HRT for 5 years - gel & utrogestan. 4 pumps. Age 53. I do everything right in terms of sleep hygiene - exercise, early nights, no caffeine in the afternoon, read to fall asleep. Etc etc - have read all the advice.

I'm just exhausted ALL of the bloody time. And I feel like all the joy has gone out of life. Can't get enthusiastic about things, feels like low level depression & anxiety. Work is also stressful and my boss has no menopause awareness and feel like I can't approach him about it.

Could I be on too high a dose of oestrogen? Do I need to go back to the dr's and ask for bloods?

Need to do something, can't carry on like this.

I am so sorry, I am battling with the same problem and it is really horrible. A lot of people on here recommend magnesium glycenate for sleep, have you tried it?

I do find my diet affects sleep, if I have been too low carb I sleep worse, also being outside for more of the day seems to help. I now have an evening snack before bed and make sure my dinner has some starchy carbs which seems to help.

Magnesium has been transformational for me.

Thanks for the replies, I already take magnesium every night. And sometimes melatonin as well. I get to sleep fairly easily most nights, but I don't stay asleep. And the early waking is a killer.

I don't know much about menopause but does an anti histamine help?

Morning! No help - but just to say I’m in the same boat here - been awake tossing and turning around an hour and thought I’d come and mooch on mumsnet before getting up for a coffee!! I used to sleep so soundly when younger - it’s a right pain.

High strength magnesium 9pm every night. I take 500 mg.

No advice I'm afraid but I'm in the same boat. I am exhausted and utterly miserable I feel like I'm dragging myself through the day to get to bedtime these days.
I've had a cold this week and the first day felt really rotten but actually slept all night that night. Never been so grateful to be unwell.

I take over the counter sleeping tablets sometimes to get back into a good sleep habit. They're only for short term use though.

I've tried everything over the years. Phenergan, amitriptyline, melatonin, nytol. I have to rotate them so as not to get dependent.

Seriously thinking of going to the dr's to ask for anti depressants but I have no experience of them.

Does family life allow for you to go to bed earlier and get up earlier? Basically, to start your day at 4.30 am, but not feeling tired because you’d have had 8 hours sleep before that?

Hello no advice but a a support post. I am on hols and the disruption to my routine due to eating out and fitting in around others is playing havoc with my sleep and had two hours last night which isn’t helping the vibe. So sympathy to you. It’s so hard. What a difficult time of life to navigate.

Just a thought, but have you considered lowering your HrT? 4 pumps is a lot. I've just switched back to low dose patches after gel and i am sleeping later. Too much estrogen in your system will mimic menopause symptoms.

Up since 4.30am here too. Solidarity!

I'm on the same dose as you. Got the bloody cylindrical bottle instead of conical and my sleep is shot!

Thinking of patches...

Yes I think I might try that.

I have the circular bottles this time as well. Why do they have to fuck with what works for us! 😡

I could do, but I'd see even less of my husband. I already go to bed at 9, read for an hour then sleep. But even the sleep I am getting til 4.30 is very broken.

I’m so sorry. I don’t have the answers, but I really feel for you.

I’m in a similar boat. Takes me hours to fall asleep then I wake up continuously and up for the day at 3-4am. It’s honestly killing me. I’m exhausted, I have no joy for life anymore.
A friend takes mirtazapine which apparently helps with sleep and also anxiety though it is an appetite stimulant so may cause weight gain. I’m thinking of asking the GP for this as I can’t carry on like this much longer

Have you thought about a sleep CBT course? Something like: https://www.sleepio.com/suitable/

I had exactly the same issues as you, rotated lots of supplements, was doing tons of sleep hygiene right. My GP, who was also a menopause specialist - and eventually led to go private and specialise in sleep issues - told me that a CBT course would be my best route. Everything we take to supplement our sleep loses its power after a while - as you've found out.

I did Sleepio and found it hard but very effective. I will probably do it again, as a refresher, in the near future. In short, you have to monitor how much you sleep every night. They take an average. Then, when the real work begins you have to go to sleep for that period. So, for example the data suggests you're getting 6.5 hours a night (even broken). You have to choose a time period to sleep within (say, 12-6.30am). You can't go to bed any earlier than midnight, or get up any later than 6.30). It doesn't matter how many times you wake in the night (they have a minimum period of 5 hours, I think). Obviously, at first it's exhausting but then you start to reset your body and you increase how much time you're allowed to sleep - by lowering the bed time or making the get up time later. If you wake in the night and can't get back to sleep after c.15 mins, you must get up and go to another room/place and read or doing something relaxing until you are sleepy. Not tired, sleepy. Then you go back and sleep. If you still can't sleep after 15 mins, you get up. You get the picture.

You can't do anything in bed except sleep (sex is allowed). No reading, no TV, no nothing. No tossing or turning!

It sounds brutal and of course, it's hard. But it did work. It really helped to reset me.

Ongoing lack of sleep is horrendous so I guess it's which brutality is worse!

Also, I found estrogen patches far more effective...just saying. GOOD LUCK

Also, can I just say - I think you're going to bed too early. I know it's really really hard when you're on your on your knees, but I would suggest trying to go up at 10 and read for 30 mins and start pushing your bedtime a bit later. That's also helped me.

And please, to everyone struggling - I know how awful it is - I was literally on the floor so many times and I found it hard to locate joy - but prescribed antideps or other heavy duty stuff is just not going to help in the mid-long term. It just brings other issues. THis is not me being judgy, I totally get it, it's me trying to say the problem needs a more holistic approach.

@Findmeahammer thanks. The sleep CBT sounds a bit brutal!

I don't think work stress is helping. I work in financial services and the pressure is brutal, with no thought for menopausal women. Sometimes I feel like getting myself signed off work and taking a break.

Following with interest and you have my sincere sympathies OP!

Re: magnesium, I've been taking it for 2 years and I think it's helped a bit, but only cheap supermarket stuff, magnesium oxide.

I read recently that Magnesium glycinate is much more easily absorbed so more effective, has anyone found this to be true?

Magnesium has differnt forms for different uses. Magnesium gylcinate is the one that helps sleep

I had the mirena coil put in in June and I've been like a zombie since. Could you switch to a different progesterone?

I take magnesium glycinate for my restless legs but it I've had to stop taking it as it makes me sleep too deeply on top of the coil.

That plus the oestrogen means I sleep deeper and longer than I have since before I had children.

That said I love getting up early so when I wake at 4.30 I get up and get on. But I'm an early person and exercise first thing.

I slept about 6 hrs before HRT and now it's at least 8 plus a nap or two during the day.

I'm already on the most body identical progesterone, the one which is meant to help with sleep.

I'd fucking kill for 6 hours straight sleep, never mind 8.