Sick of bastarding insomnia

[Floofydawg]

Been awake since 4.30am after a few hours of broken sleep. Been on HRT for 5 years - gel & utrogestan. 4 pumps. Age 53. I do everything right in terms of sleep hygiene - exercise, early nights, no caffeine in the afternoon, read to fall asleep. Etc etc - have read all the advice.

I'm just exhausted ALL of the bloody time. And I feel like all the joy has gone out of life. Can't get enthusiastic about things, feels like low level depression & anxiety. Work is also stressful and my boss has no menopause awareness and feel like I can't approach him about it.

Could I be on too high a dose of oestrogen? Do I need to go back to the dr's and ask for bloods?

Need to do something, can't carry on like this.

PS are you actually trying to wind me up?

Oh it's not all in one go, I usually wake up for a wee after about 3 or 4 hrs and then I toss and turn a lot but I'm still in a sleep state.

Before HRT, I was just awake. And weeing about three times a night.

Does needing a wee wake you up? Are you using ovestin for your bladder?

No I wasn't trying to annoy you, sorry if I did.

I genuinely meant it about maybe trying a different progesterone. And the ovestin.

But I get that you'd rather stick with utrogestan. However I can honestly say that I've never been so tired as since I had the coil put in so it could be worth a try.

Am 52 and have a lovely combo of menopause and chronic pain going on.

My sleep has been much better since I started to listen to the sleep podcast " nothing much happens". Not the whole answer but it has really helped!

My understanding is that the coil produces synthetic progesterone. Whereas the one I'm on is the closest to body identical that you can get.

This is the 3rd type of HRT that I've tried in 5 years, so I've done a lot of research.

Im on patches, relative newcomer to HRT. I think they've been great in other ways but, on balance, coming up to month three review, I don't think my insomnia has improved. I thought it might have been improving for a short time, but it's back to how it was.

I did buy some magnesium, so should probably take that more regularly to see if it helps. The tablets are enormous and you need two!

@Moredarkchocolateplease how does the coil make you tired? Genuinely curious. I had one in last May and I don't feel any different. Couldn't sleep much with utrogestan either!

OP, Epsom salts in the bath might help? Magnesium powder? Valerian tea? Bach rescue night? Clary sage out? CBD gummies?

I can empathise. I'm stuck on amitriptyline for any sleep now. If don't take it, I don't sleep.

It's shite.

Could well be stress. I think that's part of my insomnia problem.

Have you considered trying testosterone OP? That could help to alleviate some of your symptoms?

@escript the magnesium has definitely helped me, but it has to be taken every night. Make it part of your bedtime routine.

I've thought about it, but tbh I'm steeling myself for a conversation with the doctor. It was painful getting the hrt prescribed, and I haven't got the strength for another battle at the moment.

Yes absolutely. Utrogestan is body identical. I had to switch to the coil anyway.

I just suggested it in case it was an option as its made me so incredibly sleepy.

I have also read something this week about too much oestrogen mimicking menopause symptoms and suggesting trying a reduced dose if things are not improved when on a high dose.
The other option could be that you don't absorb the gel well so it may be worth a trial of a patch

Are you sure that any of these things you regularly take are helping you in some kind of way? The

HRT (is that a high dose?)
lots of magnesium
sporadic other things including melatonin

I wouldn't take them at all if they do nothing for me anyway.

Are you saying that the melatonin or antihistamine sometimes work? If they only work sometimes, I suspect they aren't working at all and it's just coincidence when they seem to help.

If you're holding down a tough job and getting lots of exercise then the sleep deprivation isn't destroying your life. I want to suggest that ... it's not sleep deprivation that's exhausting you, it's something else, maybe the tough job.

ps: i fucking hate that performance torture Sleepio App & every programme like it that trains you to dread & hate your bed. It basically counts maximum 1 hour of sleep a week as "huge success!!" as long as it's uninterrupted sleep. Stupid programme.

@QueenOfHiraeth I reduced to 3 pumps as of this morning for that reason. Trying to avoid a patch as I swim 3-4 times a week and I doubt it would stay on.

I have recently found something called sleep butter - it is a body lotion by Feather and Down, containing magnesium, camomile and lavender that you put on at bedtime, and it has been life changing.

I have suffered from insomnia (related to depression, in my case) for years - it would take me a couple of hours, at the very least, to get to sleep - sometimes I tossed and turned until 4am or later. Listening to audiobooks helped - especially Dan Jones, reading to me about the Plantagenets - for some reason that is particularly soporific - but even with audiobooks, my insomnia still plagued me, until I tried the sleep butter, and now I drop off in 20-30 minutes, most nights.

Snap. It sucks. Been years since I slept well. Fell asleep at 10.30pm and wide awake at 4am.

I'd appreciate advice too 😫

I used to sleep brilliantly, but since menopause (100mcg patch user) it's been dreadful. I can fall to sleep in less than 2 minutes, quite often I don't hear the actual start of podcasts after the adverts, but I always wake up at 4ish. Interestingly this week I've had a cold and taken night nurse for 4 nights straight and slept right the way through every night, it's made such a difference but I know it's not a long term solution ☹️

Honestly, guys, from a veteran menopausal insomniac - sleep CBT course

Oh yes, the 4am waking. No matter how tired or how late I go to bed. Just can't get through the whole night.

Yes I should really take the magnesium properly and see if that helps @Floofydawg

no reason why they won't prescribe testosterone OP, though you'll need to say you have no libido to convince them.

They'll want to ensure you are well oestrogenised before prescribing it.

My GP and practice nurse have been very supportive of me trying it.

Go back and have another conversation but if all else fails you can get a test and prescription through Superdrug

I'm same age as you with similar symptoms and just have to chip away bit by bit to get on top of things.

I take Mag Enhance for sleep - been a lifesaver for me and dealt with the 4am wakings and jitters.

Also, when did you last test Vit D, B12 and Ferratin?

God this is also my life. I've not slept for about 2-3 years. For a while I put it down to stress (also work in finance!) or post Covid PTSD (wfh with kids aged 3 and 5 nearly ended me) but a friend suggested peri - I'm 45. After a battle with the GP I got my bloods taken and immediately was put on HRT as my estrogen was so low. She told me I'd see a huge improvement as that was clearly causing my insomnia. Nope. On HRT tablets and still awake at 3/4am after tossing and turning all night. I get to sleep no problem. It's draining me. Busy job, 2 young kids etc. I'm also considering just getting prescribed something to knock me out.

HRT has definitely helped me in someways but the only thing that has helped my sleep is high strength magnesium- it has literally transformed my sleep to a solid 8 hours per night.

Wish I started sooner and saved myself years of insomnia

I take Mag Enhance which contains 3 types of Magnesium and it has also really helped with anxiety and jitters